Just get my business listed in the newspaper.… but do you even want to be in the newspaper?

In this podcast episode, I chat with Michelle Winter about PR for Startups and cover a huge range of questions to help you understand the best ways to promote your Startup through public relations.

You’ll find the answer to these and other questions in the latest episode

If you’d like to work with Michell on your PR then please check out her website at Bango PR 
Michelle is an experienced media and communications professional supporting technology, scaleup and startup companies. Michelle has worked with early-stage clients to get their messaging fine-tuned and then helps her clients navigate the media.

If you’d like to subscribe to the Fractal Marketing Podcast you can do that via these links SpotifyStitcherGoogle Play or Apple iTunes


0:00 – 05:00
Just get my business listed in the newspaper. That’s the kind of break you might get. If you ran a sod up pay our agency in today’s episode again discuss do you really wanna be in the newspaper or the benefits of being listed? How do you do public relations had employed? Someone to help you out. What’s the focus of the journalist who you appealing to and what you can do as a setup founder to get those really crucial column inches dedicated yo business and not to be corporation. I’m Jerry Doyle. And this is the frankly podcast. And. Today. I’m excited to say that we’re joined by Michelle wintom, Michelle is an experienced media and communications professional who’s worked on national and global PR Counci cross technology property consume of fitness franchise. Brad’s you name it. She’s probably done it. But more importantly for us. Michelle weks with early stage is to get them messages. Fine tuned and help them really navigate the media landscape. So I’m super excited to have Michelle hit, Michelle. Welcome to the show. Having me not a problem at all. So I’m Cain to get straight in and talk about PR. And like, I guess with all of my guests. I want to understand what you think the difference is for somebody who’s a founder of a start up or a small company. How can they guess use PR or how can they leverage this size to get? I guess a competitive Ganj against be corporates out there. Because there’s always that fear is a found that you’re gonna be drowned by the big behemoth coporate who’s going to get all the media square inches of column inches if you like Jimmy advise and how they can I guess utilize themselves as a founder to get a game advantage. Yes. I shall I think that the NFL full restage businesses is that it doesn’t have to actually host anything. I don’t sound really expensive initial. He get a big PR agency onto a consenting way cost Arado money. But the brilliant thing. Pia is that you can do it yourself. If you understand how to what the what they’re media will be interested in Abaco business than you. There’s nothing to stop you from approaching than yourself on in to get some stories running gets a valuable media coverage for you. That’s interesting. I when you talk about doing it yourself. I often wonder. As a small business or generally speaking, are you better for preaching the media as a founder as yourself, or if you go viral PR agency does that make it look like you’re trying to be something you’re not or does that put more credentials or or is it depend on how you Kitching too. I think the keys to understand it. And that’s the benefit of being appeal is that you have that experience in understanding how to purchase mania in what they were locked. But if you understand that yourself, and you approach them, I think that you know, this new hobby doing that. I would I would definitely start off on the Lola end the to get some practice in some runs on the Bullock chest the lower in. What’s what’s the lower end? I would start with rate to now buy low are dominating in inferior. Maybe something industry publications and things like that Jemaine straight to. Straight to somewhere in national or global publication. Okay. No fair enough. If you’re gonna make a mistake making in the local newspaper. So you raise interesting point there. I guess the opportunity here is to say to engage with a PR professional enzymes, can you? And she just helped me scope my story. It’s less about maybe is more about sculpting, the story than is actually the pitching the pitching to the meteorologists could be done by the founder. But I guess the talent that you bring is the story creation. Right. Yeah. And just understanding what the Nadya will actually be interested in acting. But that comes down to is really taking the time to understand what they each different publications audience will be interested in and. Yeah. So it’s just kind of side. That’s probably the most important part, isn’t it? So let’s just take a typical founder, right? So a found what used to be a news story was Stott up in Sydney raises half a million dollars. And that was the headline now that doesn’t cut it. So what do you have to do to? If you want to even if you’re talking about sod press likes tot up daily or something like that. What do you have? To do. What’s is there a process that you follow to help the found to find this story? Yes. Shocking way. Take it granted, we do it every day. But I think to to take down to to basics just understanding what each different Hubbard patients audience will be. So it may vary in that way comes a little bit tricky.
05:01 – 10:07
So. What is of interest? Is that what is of interest? I guess the journalists themselves that necessarily have to be interested. It’s about their audience. Isn’t it? Summary. What we do we Ellie stage. Companies is workshops on finding you’ll goal. That’s what we refer. We finding. What’s what’s of interest to me are and one of the like what what made you are going to be interested in. Yeah. I think he mentioned area was raising capital and a launch or a national Lynch away. If you I’m standing. Any new key highs that you maybe making from raising capital. I’m in any innovation night. Any media’s always going to be interested in innovation. So what’s your company doing differently? That hasn’t been seen before. Starting with that. And then any kind of key human interest pieces to Yoel companies story is always going at from fl- flavor. If you will. The human interest if you can get the human interest. I nailed that’s what you thought to get the mainstream national press or international. Yeah. You’ll notice it. Now when you see the images, the image that you provided is gonna be really really important. So if he put a strong image. Than that help human saw keeping another chance of running as well, doesn’t example with atlassian, actually that I can get popped up last year in the press in Toronto changed my perception of it lasting to the bed are not that I had a bad. Still only about every atlassian smidgen. Do you? Remember, the story about the squeaking chicken, the squeaky is this the meeting room one? And you know, I’ve actually seen requoted through Lanc business press about you know, how many do meetings back that probably costs. Ten dollars for mitt from it, you know. You know? So maybe they street businessmen. They ten dollar Rupp chickens from dollar show. Kindles leaking chicken has been so much Fred, and you just can’t count by that. Which is what makes it? So now is it that gave the impression so that will last me forever misleading, but it made need that. What is more voted about us squeaking again in the meeting room with the I now see that culture is approachable ended the culture is, you know, they try to think than not above the open to those sunsets ideas like energised? Deserves condoms lab, you know, bits of goal within your business that saw a bit quirky of indifferent. That would definitely help get you some PR coverage as well. But having got going through your day looking to those kinds of opportunities of what makes you different. And will definitely help to try to find your pure gold. If you talking to mention that’s very proactive in the sense that you’re, you know, either you all the company themselves have found is trying to find that thing that they can pitch author and get some get some coverage. I’m curious, I guess in my mind, I think about proactive and reactive PR. So the other side is to be reactive instead of when something’s potentially hot in the media like Topi fits, you know, hot right, now, whatever it happens to be. Is there any advice, you can give to a founder of how they own how they should approach meteor if they think they’ve got a trending story. And it’s reactive. I’m trying to think of an example. But me, and when something pops up in the in the news other techniques to to apply because you you’re gonna be outreaching to press unimagined it. So journalists a dimension. It’s time sensitive Trina. Trina is going to be your best friend as a founder, creating you know, Kissel rookies heavy hitch widow, the oil company that will say for yourself like people want to interact with people at, sir. I think if anything like that general live on Twitter, so more often than not the Email that contact Email will be in that Twitter by so you can eat flick them in Email. It says stories get out about something that you’re actually innocent in in stores or avid, you could then take the opportunity to either Email that generalists by finding the mail without all even sending them a day, yet professions still treat it like Email and just letting them know that, you know, hey, so his story. And if you ever looking for another expert to provide comment inside of this would love to help out all on them or something like that.
10:07 – 15:11
So just getting on there, right? Not trying to give them a comment, right then. But just flagging in letting them Dr you’ll also amenable. I like the idea of using Twitter, but like it performs two purposes, it’s like the old formulas why that would have been watching the see what the stories were. That’s now twitch, and Secondly, it gives you a direct to speak to a journalist and get something done. Absolutely. Sorry insane. We twitter. I would follow any in the publications that are relevant flannel industry and men the jobless and just keep track of what wanna give out wasn’t covering industry in China said, even if it’s ten minutes a day on a thing. Just checking in on what what they interested in what they write about getting to know that I and then a protein them in, you know, either with your own stories, oh sunny that might be interested in to comment. I guess that’s that’s a big part of it. You know, it’s a running that press. Release in your experience with fans are they is it worth putting effort into creating a press release? Or would you recommend that founders? I like pitching just the headline or the whole of the tidbit of information. They have got anything at a then actually go ahead and Ryan something or journalists will appreciate the formerly written press releases has, you know, we’ve got something. Or is it depends again on whether it’s reactive or proactive its old reactors setting just sending their record little bit of an infectious instruction. They they should be able to tell. Key information from you’ll Twitter all of what your company’s about should be able to make that in action. And I think in announced to the press release civically win startups in early stage companies process of actually writing a press release is invaluable and not necessarily for coaching media doing a campaign for it. But that more often than not compared to big brands messaging is in hundred percent locks down yet. And so the process of writing press releases having someone. Who’s experienced not Dwayne come in off the questions that they might be to to to realize is missing from that key messaging enormous talking now, I mean, the whole marketing pays like they may not have had the chance to work with someone like yourself yet Surrey. Yeah. Doing that process will really kind of down getting that message clear, and it needs to be United being that’s one of the misconceptions about PR dealing media’s. They don’t wanna heal your job in a we buzzwords you need to ride it like, my tenure ability could understand why ten-year-old dole doesn’t understand what you do in your press release over a what the key messages that makes you go. So the voice I’m hearing Mary’s is a founder and a lot of fan that it startup companies had technical found early. If on technical demand expert expecting their particular vertical domain is maybe just released a little bit of the preciousness about being a hundred percent, correct. And let the journalist the PR person or even yourself find the real story. That’s actually interesting in understandable. And maybe put the academic hat Assad for a little bit and get the get the pay are in the mileage you’re gonna get to grow your business. And maybe just check the technical jogging and a little bit the dole before you stop. What? Absolutely. And I think if if there’s going to be any type rain action attack today for families is to get your kid pitch. Rod he explaining one-sentence, if you’ll elevator pitch is not if my my tenure doesn’t understand what it is that you’ll company does it then as a whole because the the other thing is flapping clients and getting slaughtered at going to press in what they realize in spotting a press releases at it may actually sound that exciting the language used is not tackled language, but we need to he needed Kate with a journalist just likely would really plain English GMI Doda. I like the using your daughter as a reference point because I actually have a ten year old daughter. So I feel like I’ve already got a PR lesson in west. So I’m gonna run everything by national pasta. The ten year old daughter test. It’s it’s what we not vigilant because she doesn’t get it. Then. Beheld being received four hundred eighty dollars. Plus a day they need to be outwitted really quickly comprehend. What it is that you say, and we’ll have to lay off our chemical inflammation in. It’s the same wave that he can read an article in folly, you will still be whilst it’s about some complex businesses than you know, it’s still written in playing wish tonight.
15:12 – 20:03
Unless it’s an article about buzzwords in which fight. You’re you’re free to do it. So I’m curious to NAR and everyone’s got this. But what’s the biggest misconception around payout? Public relations that you find the moment that, you know, particularly sought a fan, but any business earn a has around public relations. Still, but it can be guaranteed. Not. It’s more of that. Right. It’s. I mean at Bangor in particular, we guarantee our days. So that end what? But that doesn’t mean we guarantee particular coverage we gotta pay that whatever you invested in securities. We will keep going even if the campaign Hawkin full slot will keep going until you receive that say what equal appetizing dollas in place. Lasota EMS is an stand every chance. So we wanted to retake that seriously. Do you think the media landscapes change much? I mean, I remember I was talking to someone recently. And I said it said, look, you know. Go back before I was really reading the newspaper. And yes, if you go nautical newspaper, people would read it in contact you. I kinda feel as dies you get something in the newspaper you getting in there to say that you’re in there. But actually, not many people read it anymore is that is that the case or is that just my really jaded and digitally biased perception of the media. It certainly very competitive for audiences in people consume me content in crazy spades. I think we’re talking specifically foil early stage companies I think the benefit is having that first page on Google just really solid. So that if you set your company’s name, while the found his name something that that I cage you basically are in old through. Media coverage because if you’ll guide to raise money, you’ll you’ll have, you know, clients wanting to bet you enter research, you check that you’ll credible every everyone’s gonna gig Lifa, sir. Having whatever left I do. But whatever that says about is gonna make a big difference in God’s credibility in having a medium venue is an amazing the potty interests fishy are there with a lot of conversion rate. Optimizing professionals. I often say where have you been face to face it? And if you can put news outlet logos on your website. That’s kind of proof point that consumers can have in saying that you’re probably trustworthy brands. That’s almost like going back to the old as seen on TV thing. I mean in some respects, that’s what you’re blind with PR is the as seen on TV badge. Yeah. I try to explain to startups when we’re just having chances at night, even if we get whole page of Google hooked up with all this media coverage that doesn’t mean necessarily that you’re going to have a lease idols all of a sudden, it doesn’t necessarily work that. But it doesn’t mean that it’s not allowing it can happen like that to show. But it all depends on you know, I’d like to I’d like to think is probably gonna drive styles by think is going to help convert the person who’s on the fence, and they can do that second such third. So and they go Jim what these guys, oh, this company has been around for a while. We can probably trust them. All right. Here’s my credit card number make a purchase. So if someone is looking to get some help on Paige, what do you think what is some of the questions they can ask because I mean, you know, you’ve got to go to Google maps and type in public relations or PR. And you know, there’s is it’s a very fragmented industry. Right. I mean, you know, more than Maeve at, you know, there are a lot of independent a public relations specialists out that so what are the kind of questions that someone should ask of a potential public relations consultant affirm that you think helps cut through to see whether they’re going to be the right fit or the right for us thought up. All right for you. If it would mean, I would be asking firstly what crimes that they worked with and separately have a measure that success, and what they should be saying to your mind Pinon is. What does success may to you? Because success means different dance to all different kinds of company. So what might be what might name successful up to utilize startup may be totally irrelevant for number one. So I would be like a star having been understand you’ll commercial objectives. Wrought, sir. I found with Martin bay. I’m just wanna be in my local curry mile piper. Because I want that proof point to local market. But it might also bay whatever it costs I need being tech crunch because I’m going to go to the US and do a major funding round on I need to being tech crunch.
20:03 – 25:03
Because without that, we never gonna get anything special. A different of having mad focus on what is yet to be successful repeal. It is definitely the most important. And then of course, whether they can live with oh from testing. So how do you see PR changing over the next few minutes change to lock in the last five ten years? But how do you think it’s going to change in the next couple of years, or is it going to change at all? Will change. It’s changed a lot since I started here. Oh, don’t worry about the people sought to continue that Google always go. I started doing such engine marketing before Google was was thing. Google didn’t exist, and you says he people’s horrified looks like there was a world before Google. Never know why not off-key. But yes it yet. It has definitely changed. A lot lost ten years. The last two years is probably the the right changes slide down a little bit. But it’s still definitely changing pretty quickly. Trying to keep up with the right in rich content is made it consumes. So it’s more important now than ever to keep your whatever you have Halloween. Communicate generous when you’ll pitching to them having that is simple end easy for them to then do the job is by supportive because they’re dead. Vice if so much more content in articles to be putting Asir the easier you can make they allies the better like don’t pitch to them end. Then that actually come back and big Yuri and ask full something to do with that. And then he died get back to them within the day of the in all it’d be getting back to within ten minutes like as quickest. Otherwise, it’s lot hasn’t. I mean, like, there’s no I mean, it’s a bit of a blood now society, but the foam of investigative journalism where you might spend a couple of days looking into something that’s gone now. Isn’t it sorry as as the source of the of the press release the content? It’s guess I understand it to be it’s upon us. She create the bulk of the content and the journalists joked now is as much as being like a Sabathia as anything else. Yeah. I’m in. I mean, it’s different in different concepts publications that you can treated that way that you’re treating press release as a silver platter that they have everything they need to do the job if they’re interested in your story. I think I think it’s website that image is probably the thing that I see startups struggle with the most so making sure that your images at least one to two Neg big end in inhibitory Stalin in five minutes of googling appropriate media images is gonna help. But if it was a founder story them, I guess spending the money to actually get those preferably shots in in different types of profile. Scholz is is money will invest to drive. Yeah. The funny thing about that is my own one gets from. I think that as long as the elements either, right? It doesn’t necessarily you can take that kind of settle in your efforts. He doesn’t necessarily have to take, you know, really expensive Florida’s that. If if this summer on your website or something like that I can provide some samples that you could gives you we’ll do off their yum. When they episode goes live. I’ll put be a post page for it. So I will definitely with wrote some examples in there. I mean, I I recently painfully went and caught my profile photos hiking again here in Brisbane. And I did that because I was sitting talking to somebody who’s just frustrating ’cause went to go meet them it fighter on lengthy in looked at the fight and win. You don’t look anything like that. Doc, you you’ve aged an awful lot in the time. It took you to walk through this meeting. So I thought to myself hang on, Jerry. Do you go to this as well? So I get the photo updated. Even though you don’t look as good as you did five years ago. Get a new fatter taken Cy. Hyphen further came about is because awesome said I’d be holding onto the same photo for five years. So. I was just gonna ask one really specific question one site that I found and other federal audit from PayPal is soul. Spot will how have you found if you use source portal or their equivalent type services, and are there any tapes, you’ve got be using a website like so you probably have also need to explain what souls police as well. But if you’ve been tips for how to respond to so spot will I guess inquiries butter. Sputter is great resource. You just saw him up. Just like the joining a newsletter and any skin that they send Email less day on a thing in journalists kin put on Email different opportunities king full an expert in. I don’t envy. So if that’s just jump on it straightaway.
25:03 – 28:44
And then let them neither your age and makes me heavily contacting tells them make sure that your Email signature is oh. Oh to about spate of response. And I guess proving that you’ve got some or your your valid to be a source of information Bijan is you have to write your full blow in response to you. I regain thickness over any heat with that. Well, because let’s keep received an Email era Piaget in the country will be sitting that to job opportunities jump click. It’s all spoil. The is the later isn’t the only one other other websites similar to Seoul’s bottler? Isn’t it? Just I focused on that one. We assigned back to cellphone. Oh, we we on any others. Doesn’t mean. I’d probably just especially if he’s trying to go internationally. I guess fantastic. So lost question for me. Imagine the scenario way you’ve gone like oh cafe to Mehta young founder who said, you know, I’ll buy your coffee for your advice. And and you wanna leave her with a great tip. You throw at the really liked this person. I want to give a one hit that if she goes away in the next vice it will make a difference to a business. So my question to you is what would that one bay that you would give this found us that when she lades if she does it. There’s gonna be some kind noticeable difference to the presence of her company in the media back to the pitch again having that nearly solid. Emily clear. It’s going to be all secret weapon because it it works. Hold concepts. And so I would get that really really clear. I would all, sir. Father to that say having having a pitched whether it’s to Neo with us people that focuses all are what the pain point is that the NBC would be ceiling if you can make you can appeal to that that is what people take notice all of in in media stories like that’s what’s going to be of interest in who might people stuck in this skinning will differently. Let his neck get different press. Nine will die. It will pick up on something that the hustle feel inflicted by. And I think. The rate is up. What’s in it? For me. What am I going to get out of this? That I didn’t care about us. They don’t care about our business what we’re trying to achieve. And it’s like what what’s in it for me. What can I get out of this? That’s it was brilliant. Well, thank you so much time. Now, if people wanted to get in contact with you because I liked what you’ve said in a nice tangled. What’s the best way to rate your to find you run off air and Michigan’s M I S H undesirable window, and in also upside at Bengals yada, home dot AU, and is an Email inquiry phone there, and I am always on my Email. I’m never far away brilliant and you’ll you’ll based in Sydney. It’s been as well. So we go back and forth. Every couple of weeks. Normally around firm test, a bright will thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for the advise a hype everyone’s got a couple of tips. There are really really liked the idea of using a PR to work on your story and get your pitching right in that she doing the legwork yourself. I think that’s a really nice compromise. To find Robin sort of saying I want to outsource my PR. You take care of everything. Can I’ll go away actually just get coach from the sideline, and maybe do a lot of the lifting himself, and that might be the compromise per fan is on a tight budget brilliant. Thank you so much time. Thank you.

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