ChatBots are so hot right now, but most are poorly created – I talk with Chat-bot expert Sean Melis of BotHello

There’s no denying it, chatbots are a thing. If you conduct any kind of business online, you’ve looked at or thought about introducing a chatbox. And if you spend yourself any time online, you’ve no doubt encountered one.

But the problem with chatbots are, for the most part, they’re implemented poorly. You know, the experience, you ask a couple of questions, you fall slightly outside of that decision tree that somebody built and the chatbot doesn’t know the question and you’ve got to send an email and the entire experience makes you feel a little bit flat.

It’s a bit like if we go back to the early 90s and noughties with those phone bots and trying to get through to the bank and get to the right department and you find yourself screaming down the phone because they couldn’t understand you or your strange Australian accent.

But right now we’re living in a world where we all have a smartphone with some kind of voice bot in our pocket. We have a Google Home or an Alexa device in our kitchen, in our bedroom.

So we know this is where we want to go. We just want to make it a good experience. And that’s what we’re talking about in today’s episode. How to build great chatbots, what makes the difference and how to use them in your business, not just for customer service, but also for business and marketing.

This week, we are joined by Sean Melis, the Co-Founder of bot • hello.

We’re a team of dreamers, creatives, and nerds who are still shocked that we build chatbots for a living.

We actively discuss and embrace the exponential change society is going through as a result of technological innovation; and want to do everything we can to ensure our clients are taking full advantage of it—particularly in conversational AI. It’s an incredibly exciting space to work in, and we’re genuinely passionate about discovering new ways in which our clients can leverage and maximise the opportunity of engaging with these technologies early.

We also get a real kick out of watching our friends, family, and clients smile whilst using our chatbots. So we’ve made it our mission to help brands bring joy and personalisation to their customer interactions.

Your strategic partner, from design to deployment—and beyond. We equip businesses with the tools they need to survive in a world of exponential change. We are an innovation strategy company that has the ability to deliver solutions in-house and at scale. We don’t just tell you the solution to your problem, we build it and implement it for you.

Follow their journey on Facebook, Linkedin, & Instagram.

Marketing for Accountants

Thanks to rampant globalization, a growing economy and a complete tax environment, accounting services are in high demand. Regardless of the size and type of business, marketing has emerged to be the “go-to” way to win prospects and nurture every small and large company. Marketing for accountants is as crucial for your firm if not more as it is for most experts out there. What can you do to retain clients and win new ones? Make sure your firm is at the top of its game while taking new industry trends and ideas for business development into account.

Carving out a niche, developing a good referral program, establishing an online presence through effective social media marketing and creating a diligent marketing strategy are useful tactics that may help you win clients for your accounting business. Your accounting firm can easily be a robust, high growth business. State of the art marketing solutions for accountants understands the significance of developing your position as an industry expert, establishing a strong online presence while ensuring that you consistently assess your efforts against your investment.

What is accounting marketing?

We are witnessing the evolution of accounting marketing from a relationship-driven, geographically limited discipline to a skill and expertise based multifaceted strategy that leverages the latest technology and techniques to target specific customers. This approach is very impactful when it comes to a firm’s visibility, reputation, service offerings, new client acquisition, client retention, recruiting and pricing.

Marketing is however not the same as sales. The latter is the process offering a specific set of tailored services to address a specific prospect’s needs and convincing them to make the purchase while marketing is the process of generating awareness for the services offered by the firm and encouraging qualified prospects to reach out in case they wish to be furnished with more relevant information.

Devising your Marketing Strategy

First, you need to know who you are talking to, following which you can feed that precious insight into your carefully drawn marketing strategy. Take your time and invest judiciously when it comes to defining marketing goals and the methods you’ll use to accomplish them. Whether you are just getting started or you have spent a formidable budget on marketing each year, ensure you have a properly researched and well-documented marketing strategy before you to keep you grounded and motivated.

A formal marketing plan for your accounting business is the best way to organize your efforts and ensure they are channelized into something productive. A plan should briefly touch upon- business targets, vision, and mission, overarching goals, your unique selling points (USPs), a SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats) analysis.

How will a marketing channel help your firm?

It’s time for you to incorporate some inbound marketing tactics. It’s important to understand what kind of information your clients are seeking and how you can best deliver it, in a cost-effective, time-saving manner. There are a number of marketing tactics at your disposal- referral programs, social media, email marketing, content marketing and thought leadership. Determining the right tactic depends on your company’s audience, budget, resources, etc.

Finally, do not undermine the significance of compelling content, website design and development, online marketing graphic design, and video production. Come up with innovative and convenient ways to introduce your firm and everything it stands for.  Combine interviews, client testimonials and introduce key members of your team. Your customers need to believe in you and your service before they make a purchase. Make that happen with a stellar marketing strategy.

Marketing for accountants needs to be simplified and strategized. Building an accounting company is not an easy task. There are plenty of wrong ways to market a CPA firm. Making your first steps in marketing can be challenging and overwhelming but this is the only way to ensure recurring client relationships. Throughout all marketing activities, however, use analytics to guide you towards better decisions and the best results.

Video Marketing for founders with Amir Bazrafshan

What did you think of the latest Gillette “We Believe: The Best Men Can Be” ad ?

What about Nike‘s “crazy women” ad?

Why is one ad, so much better than the other?

“To any founder listening to this……. go back to why you started, and the mission that you’re on, find your purpose, and then create content that’s in line with that.”

Wise words from Amir Bazrafshan Managing Director at Apricot Video Marketing

You can hear the full episode here, where we discuss:

  • The basic level of quality needed for video campaign – however using your mobile phone is fine
  • Sound – the unsung hero of a good video
  • Building conversion funnels into your videos
  • Using YouTube for brand hero content
  • Video case studies and how to build rapport between the subject and the viewer
  • using emotion to justify an emotional decision
  • We talk the emotion in the latest Nike commercials
  • purpose marketing and how brands are getting it wrong
  • The Shoe Dog Book by Nike’s founder
  • We talk about not confusing tactics with strategy
  • Why view count is one of the least important metrics for video
  • Should you do direct to camera or use stock video
  • How do you hire someone to hep you with video

Episode Transcript

0:00 – 05:07
Video is one of the hottest trends in marketing right now. And it’s easy to see why last year four point six billion video ads watched online and those same videos produced twelve hundred percent more shares than text any midges combined on social media, but video is much more than just a tactic in this podcast, I discussed how video is the ideal medium to live your brand message. Why is it that your business? Does what it does? I’m Jerry Doyle. And this is the practical podcast, bribing you mock knee experts from around the world to help you advance your business. That’s getting today is episode talking about video marketing. So welcome to this week’s episode and this week we are joined by a Baz Zaref Shan from Aprecu video marketing old way over in the UK. Welcome in me to the Shire. Hey, Jared, thanks for having me van testee. So so as a citizen, I’m glad to have every British person. I can on the show I lived in Britain for ten years. So it’s great to have somebody from the other side of the weld sharing their insights and this week. We gotta be talking about video marketing, which is near and dear to my heart, and he’s one of the trending topics for all forms of online marketing on but also marketing general, so this should be fantastic episode to help you help your business utilize these new formity marketing, which I’m going to be honest is probably quite daunting when you get started. But hopefully, the end of this podcast amaze going to be able to share some insights for us, which makes it same a little bit less daunting. So I’m going to jump straight in. With the through the first question the same question. I asked every week. I think he’s going to be bit different for you woke with focused on here is trying to understand if there’s any kind of competitive advantage or difference that a founder of a small startup company can bring to video marketing to compete with the businesses because obviously we’ve got massive differences in budgets. He so what can a small business or a founder of a small business due to possibly can pay with the kind of budgets that a lodge organization might happen meal? Yeah. As really good Arabia question. And I think what it comes down to it. Would it comes a few different things invisible? Am I think he comes down to the ability to humanize yourself, and what is that you will doing as startup as new company and the ability then to get the out at scale. Zero cost. I oblivious your website uploading it to teach eve and an and been able to measure the the impact of those videos. Against you know, what the competitors are actually doing as well. Right. So humanizing it and being real is is one competitive advantage. Do you do you look at this and think there’s a minimum level of quick or production that someone needs to do? Or is it depend on guess on the the company what you’re trying to portray video. Yeah. I think I think there is like a a critical mass, shall we say of a of a quality that you need. I think because we will say yes to HD even full K on our mobile phones. Now that does need to be a basic level of production quality. But I’m although I run a video agency. I’m not a an equipment snow, and I think is absolutely fine to to use your mobile phone slum is a sound is pretty decent. So you’re not lot outside the winds blowing give it God Bill to. Hey, you and actually sound is one of the unsung heroes of good quality video. So if you’re in a quiet room where even. If you wearing headphones mcferrin attached to it, and if you will create some some social vide, for example, that’s a really good way just to just to get started. Unlike I said, it really puts a personality to to the brand and it puts a face to to the website to the proposition and. Let’s not forget people people buy from people from human beings. Even in like, a B two B context is still people within the businesses the buying. And I think that does doing youth. There’s lots of different kinds of videos, you can create but just doing the simple kinds of videos can really help to to to give you the edge, especially when you’re starting out. If you don’t have big budgets to invest in your marketing. It can really it can really help you to make the connection to the people that the matter the can then they can help to implement your your message. Yeah. I think that’s really good advice. I am I often get frustrated when I say small business websites and small business. It’s a business of one. And you see a website tasteful and say, we do this Al company thinks this stop and think to myself, it is just one person.
05:07 – 10:07
Like, I think bay who you AVI human be real because that show competitive advantage or a faceless lodge organization. You’re a real person. So I guess in video that’s that chance to bring that personality full would and not hide who you actually are behind, you know, the idea of being be corporate productions, so I think that’s a really good advice. Now, the other thing you mentioned that was just around the different types of videos. So obviously, there’s a lot of different types of videos. What springs to mind is the idea of like the first feeder, which is often the explain of video? And then of course, you’ve got I’m trying to think of the other kinds of videos, you what maybe you could maybe can jumping inside. Give me told me the different kinds of video is that people rejecting. No, I quite let you struggling to think of them to be honest with you. So so to to think, I think the best way to think about types of video when we’re talking about tops video with the talking tactically, and I’m always cancelled talk about tactics because tactics will only work in relation to a specific strategy. But for now how about inside an Allen to the question. So if we look at a funnel approach to tomorrow ting, you the toll middle in the bottom of the funnel. So who looking at the top of the funnel. We’re looking at a wins. So social video is good for for wetness. You’ve gone. Content that is native to to YouTube. So I think YouTube platform, but I think it has its purpose in it shouldn’t be the automatic Goto place for bleeding all of your video continent. Cannot cheat work against you in some ways which can address a little bit later in the Trump. So I think you teams good full. I would say brand Herro content. It’s likely to be Tena purposes will shed educational content as well even video even video books. Peachy Friday has when it’s Facebook, sit alongside YouTube. It’s it could be this morning, specifically, different medium, isn’t a. Yeah. It is different medium in each platform will have a different psychology. So people go on for different things a niece of how to address that within the design of the video the you’ll kind of alluding to the full. So when people go onto Facebook than not specifically going on to watch a video, you have to bed by mind. When people go into each exactly what they’re trying to do. Right. That’s that’s their objective. So it makes it a little bit more straightforward. And do you think people on YouTube a generally looking for information sometimes I’ll look into into time? But sometimes I actually specifically specifically looking for information, whereas Facebook, it’s almost always just entertain me. I don’t know if there’s a big difference in the sake between the two platforms, but that’s my. Yeah. Immature interpretation of why people use them. No. I think I think that’s pretty Royal in. So if you look at what YouTube is it’s effectively search engine full video with some. Social elements tacked on like likes and comments of it’s not I wouldn’t call it a social platform. First influences a search engine. So what do we do when we go to a search engine like Google where we’re looking for something we often have something that we’re searching for we have an issue that we want to solve a problem that we won’t kind of Coleman nuts. The primary tool that we use and YouTube is no different is just a video full of that. So for example, you know, last year I had an injury during jujitsu Maturan doctor. So I went on THE the some exercises to do that can help the injury to I would not go onto Facebook and look for solution to my my groin injury. This wouldn’t happen. And I think that’s an important distinction. Because like I said when you thinking very tactically about a case what videos who would make him which platforms. You’ve got to bear that in mind, right? If you won’t decree optimal media content. Yeah. I know I distracted the conversation and let us off on a little tangent there, but we were talking about attention. You know, the so the funnel. And so in some ways Facebook is gripe that attention because people are saying, hey, entertain me. Keep me something. That’s flashy. That’s gimme he is exciting. So if I’m going to produce an attention video Facebook is probably not a bad platform for that. Whereas on slightly further down YouTube a bit more about you know, fact, it’s about satisfying problem and curiosity, and you’re in your naturally further down that that buying funnel so different platforms play anymore. Yeah. That’s still say it’s still still the issue with top of the funnel. Because what we won’t be doing through the down the funnel. Typically, another constitutes every kind of busy. But typically won’t people to be going on our website because we won’t conversion bear an inquiry sale subscription, something, right? So we asked to be able to draw people give people a reason to go to to the website.
10:08 – 15:00
So good quality middle of the funnel content, which is the consideration stays, right? So people have done some sun some home with the Dunston research. They understand what that problem is in looking at solutions now, and I think really good quality case study videos, not testimony. But Kate case is a really good assets to to invest in even if you do them yourself. I mean, a want to make sure that. Talk about on this podcast is applicable several news, that’s listening know that everyone has bullets, but you you come to yourself so long as you get the structure, right? And I think the benefit of doing a good quality case today is that it it. Consult of be like a bit of a magic trick in the if you if you do it. Well, you can actually create a repeal between the subject of the case study, which would be client that you service really really well in the happy with the new nickel could story tell in the person watching it. So what you’ve got Stutz that saw the objective. What you want to do is make people feel safe that somebody like me is that a stimulus problem NF had an awesome result by using this particular this particular business, or this particular predatory also this and not solve the crooks of the case study video. Yeah. And it’s econ. Yeah. I was gonna say it’s I think it’s much more compelling using video. A medium for them. Because you know, the typical Saudi is the, you know, two or three pages of stats and long text on a page or scrolling page multiple pages videos. I think of the advantages is passive one and two the other one is you can just put Cy much information into a video without overloading somebody so he can deliver a lot more contents. I’m guessing that’s probably one of the main reasons why videos, I popular right now. Maybe they’re the two main reasons she sort of agree with that. Or am I or am I million miles off with why videos, maybe what then I think? So I’ve I’ve read, you know, in the early days of April, I will hold my hand up and say, I did paper-based PDF case today. And I think. I think it comes down to what we’re trying to do. So you know, what’s it for what we’re trying to do is fundamentally persuade people where the best solution to that problem? And if we’re in the game of persuasion. Stott’s on and data isn’t sways. If it’s very logical. And very rational won’t. What is persuasive stories in the motions? Right. And that’s the edge clear advantage. The good quality video hats because you can stir up emotions you can create report literally within a few seconds. If it’s done correctly, really really economy can be very compelling. Whereas if you’ll using something more data driven it has its place in the sales cycle. But it’s it’s more. It’s more to justify people use logic to justify emotional decision and sales all sales is emotion surgery was amid it’s a post rationalization why purchase that cop because have remarried that brandishes because of it’s not it was entirely driven by the gut not the head. And then I just want wanna ten irrational based when in reality, I’m entirely emergent with my precious decisions. Yeah. I I I saw her is a new Nike ad out of the moment around. And women sport. And I think Serena Williams the voice over for it. And I must have seen it shed ten times. Now on my social made like on Facebook, my personal vice book page, and you can just see people’s comments. It’s like I was crying half. I throw it this. Is it you know, and people just making those comments, and and I watched it. Yeah. Like it’s emotional right from the start. They absolutely Nile it anything yet. That’s exactly what you just express. It’s emotion is a great story aligns with the brand, obviously. But the predisposition to purchasing a particular brand of shoes can be made at that point. There’s no point we’re not he sat there and spoke about, you know. Yeah, they also stopped shoes from rubbing on the tennis court flow. Yeah. That wasn’t mentioned. It was not performing. It was not, you know, they’re even dropped the whole Nike air, and you know, all the springs, it’s now just entirely emotionally lead. How as a founder or someone who may be doesn’t have that autistic finding that body? So you can watch great ad like that guy. That was amazing. I didn’t really consider myself an odyssey in that sense. What’s the best way? To actually go about building that emotion and other causes. I mean, obviously, I could high you April, and you could do it for them. But other other other maybe the axle callsas and things people could do to be a little bit smarter back out of a national storytelling yet.
15:00 – 20:04
So I’d always Tokyo to avoid tax because I I don’t believe in myself. I think I think I’m glad people took night because they all the agencies that produced those videos all just fantastic in this. So. So consistent with the quality. And also the impacts of the videos is as well, I think that absolutely fantastic. The thing about those videos, and we cannot shoot no matter what business where we cannot learn from them. The thing about those videos assist. So on brand. And they the rule the rule. Two nights mission is to inspire athletes all athletes are on the world and they define asleep. As if you have a body that you are not fleet. Right. So that’s what they’re trying to juggle addressable market. If you have a body you’ll pot about. Right. Right. And it’s it’s there why that comes through the imagery the video’s even in the innovation in the products. And if you’ve read shoot oak by Phil Knight, the founder of nyc. No, I haven’t. Yeah. It it was one of the best books. I’ve read in less clears read it last year. And it’s it blew me away. You just understand the the guy that started the company to sell. I mean, that’s be honest commodity because you can buy you can buy them from you know, you can buy them from supermarkets now different different different ruining cheese. He was on a mission. And he really believed he was hit a purpose in really believed him so to any found a li- listening to this even if you work in a really terse technical area, I’m not saying you should prompts aim to create video content is gonna make people crying, but get go back to why you’ll starting why you started what you started. And the mission your own find find your purpose, and then you create content this in line with. I think the whole purpose driven marketing it’s been misunderstood. And. Terribly in the last eighteen months also with people under the Gillette at for example, is a really bad example, actually is a good example of bad mortgage because would’ve sat down with the ad exists. We need to we need to do some purpose marketing and they’ve got it completely wrong. They need to do is go back to their roots really figure out their identity. What is it? They stunned full which equals that brand and create content. It’s tied directly into that. And that within itself is a really strong differentiator when you’re creating video content. That’s a fantastic breakdown of those Gillette ads. I as a marketer for loss of opinion, paces back and forth. But I think if so succinctly explained why greats people is because you look at it on one side you go. It’s a great ad. And it is a great, Ed. But it’s just we don’t believe that. That’s Gillette purpose emission. They went. The rises wearing created to kind of create a better, man. It was you know, what they mission was. But it definitely wasn’t that. Because we’re running on. We saw the Gillette hats from the last twenty years. And that’s what they were that wasn’t the position I would taking so. Yeah, you don’t get to turn around and change you you’ve used right away. So it’s interesting. No, no, nothing kind of a larger Paul logic coming to mate on Gillette from two lights, which have facial hair. If we don’t if we can say will a brand like Gillette’s peppis will mission is that then walked in Wilno. We should be able to even though I don’t, you know, I don’t use Gillette’s raises of seen. I’m on social media. Among among Facebook, watch TV, there should be speaking that to us. It should be. We shouldn’t not know. Fantastic advice, the promo code now is I’m talking to you about this an absolutely he’d get into purpose and storytelling. And then I’ve just thought to myself about video marketing, so I’m gonna I’m gonna make a mental note, we’re gonna come back, and we’re going to do storytelling, and we’re gonna run a whole podcast just on storytelling and get the feeling we could go on for a while. So really back into to video and just staying a little bit on Kohl’s. I’m curious around lengthens moving video, and you know, obviously, they’ve just had it recently that had video, and it seems to be working quite well, some Cain guest. The double question one is how you saying that evolve. And what are your thoughts on the new link team live that apparently is coming out? And how do you think that’s gonna play out? Yeah.
20:04 – 25:02
Well, again, it’s it’s a tactic. Yeah. I think it Lynton video Lincoln live. It’s it’s it’s tough take. And I always think that there’s a danger of being distracted by the newest tactics. When it might not be on on strategy was said earlier was tucked takes around league gonna be useful within specific strategy in a stress strategy is only good in relation to a specific goal. And it’s so the way that we structure I will get about two Minton Promessi, but I need to kind of take a step out. I to make make make sense. So I think what I’ve noticed from we’ve worked with our shares in startup some brownie companies over the year is that a big one of the big differences between startups in my experience in the big businesses is thoughts startups, so busy starting know trying. Get critical mass sales in trying to do everything they come to promote themselves. They forget to strip to their work in terms of goal, which is the overarching Fain strategy, which is a broad approach, which if happens increases chances of hitting that goal and an attack takes which the little steps that you take to to kind of meet strategy Whitson helps you get you go. Now, if if Lynton. Is going to be something a platform where your audience all that’s going to help you execute fulfill strategy than I think it’s gonna be a wonderful wonderful innovation and a wonderful development platform because you know, it’s to be it’s it gives you their contact with people that can really help to influence in the buying process. You can network really well in there. And I think that it could be a really good move and to give the people the embraced platform that need that platform, the tools again to humanize themselves to create that kind of repeal to really develop the relationships in a very human human way, it’s going to be able to irrelevant to somebody that is strongly in the beat seep places prep school Amazon shop props they are selling on Facebook on Instagram shopper fly wherever. And then those seats is it’s not a handle there. But you see the situates. So it’s very contextual. That’s what I’m trying to say. Because I don’t want someone. To listen meets say, oh, it’s a great tool for someone. That’s irrelevant to to go out and try because we’ll that doing then is wasting valuable time on something. That’s just not going to give them any any results. Fantastic advise. I I look I couldn’t agree more. I think it’s a lot of the time in PayPal or potential clients approach may in know, they want some help there often approaching me we tactics to recently that Facebook trickle that link trick in what can we do a little bit more than you just use sort of boil it down you try to turn them around to saying that it’s about the overall strategy. What what are you trying to achieve as much as a couple of weeks on on Instagram? And then you kind of find out, whether it’s, you know, for may I find out whether it’s a client that I really want to work with if they still hung up on the tips of the Drake’s thin, that’s probably not the the the right person. And I think it’s interesting that that’s your approach with video because I think video on the way you articulated his perfect. It’s video is a great lady him to deliver pesonality to live a passion. Create emotion. Because because you can communicate so much information site quickly. And it’s so real to you imagine for most businesses, especially small businesses that those videos a’done person talking to camera or do they actually try to sort of film things film, people slide images in in terms of like, you know, how a lot of small businesses tackling this because I say a lot of businesses will do stock footage stock video and try to incorporate that and try to pace it together and making us video or you saying that the most success is coming from people keeping it real using themselves and not try to reproduce it. Yeah. So we’re in the realm of presentation in style now. And that’s that’s really something that. It has to be a week some of our clients do their own videos. We support them into a thing we say to them. It’s just keep it. Simple. Keep it manageable fisa process you’ll doing so let’s keep it keep it reading really simple and something that’s going to be sustainable. Not just say, you know, if you do it absolutely knock you out for few days. And I need is going to be pulled off doing again. There’s no hard and fast answer. I can’t say that yet, you know, talking to come ROY is going to I’m, you know, a wish, but it’s just it’s it’s such a nuance space old of business is not just walked video marketing. And I think what people need to do is find a style that works for them that they’re comfortable with.
25:03 – 30:00
And then experiment, you know, us as a starting point. And then experiment and. When when when you looking measuring video if you count is one of the least important metrics, it’s never really a KPI. The what is important is engagement that you getting on the on the video? So you could try and experiment with a couple of types of video crops. You’re using stock footage invoice aver will maybe you all talking to come and just experimenting with the move recourse of you know, two or three months. Both approaches have low cost both approaches is a simple to to to do. And what you gotta do is let just really feel your way into it in the sea way getting the biggest response. And then when you’re getting something works, and then you down makes a lot of sense. So if I’m if I’m listening to this center, I’m struggling a little bit in thinking still to daunting. I think definitely need to hire expanding to speak to somebody can help me out. His there some questions that you can provide listeners with that. They can ask someone who that. So basically, they looking to hire someone to help with marketing how? Are there some answers authorities from questions that they can ask that have really helped weighed half the people who know the marketing from the people who have just added to a menu of different things that they can do yet. Totally. So know, the many many many countless numbers video production companies in videographers at very very talented ones about around says is there’s lots of people to choose from. If people just wanting literally just wanting video content the net fine using over for the fine using video production company. If that wanting something that’s going to potentially help them move the needle business that going to include some kind of strategy in meason than video marketing agency, I would suggest is to ask about talking about strategy. So what kind of strategy seem wyking in particular context? Yeah. You can take a look at people’s work as as oppose without some secondary to how a weekend to be. Measuring success these videos, and what are we gonna do if the not hitting if an performing because ultimately any business, whether you’re a startup were very. A very big businesses been going for for for a long time. It’s an investment that you make an investment has to be looked after. So as you would when you’re investing anything, you wanna know how you measuring it. And what are we going gonna do if what we second won’t in isn’t isn’t happening up that advice? I think fought too many companies brief out some form of video creative and get some of that comes back. That’s absolutely beautiful in stunning in Mainz zero to the business. We’ll try no difference to what they’re actually going to achieve. Yeah. The ad looks great. It’s a typically flawless, but it had some actually driven anymore revenue. So that’s fantastic advice. And also, I’m sorry just just to jump in. Because I know that it’s going up to view count again view count an ego really really closely related. I know are full for that all the time. I look I look at the stats like something back into us. We just have to see how many people viewed it. I know. I mean, unless let’s get it straight. I mean, unless the view count is zero then it’s important because he’s you know, doing something, right? And you need to do some more commotion. So the reason I bring this up is because we’ve had clients that said, okay. So we’ve had this production company that said that the that avenues of had millions of us collectively over the last couple of years and not sounds really really impressive. It’s a while. We’re gonna get visa gonna get ambles. And it’s not about the number of us. It’s about the right people what genial content for the right reasons. And then doing something that you want him to do after. So it’s it’s it’s in which the mall strategic thoughtful approach, you can adieu on YouTube is thirty seconds. Roughly, I think view on Facebook is about three seconds at least it used to be. So so I could literally take mama Bowe phone record thirty seconds of making, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which is what I do kind of. To YouTube pull fifty pounds behind it to boost the post, and I could get a few thousand diesel not overnight. But it’s just gonna be views the loss for three seconds. So what value is content? What value is these adding the win the so-so insignificant? The watching such a small portion of the video it really really is.
30:01 – 35:07
Doesn’t mean anything what encourage people to do is is ask people. Okay. So. What difference if you’ll is is your video content? Major clients. Have you mentioned that in the past is the increase could bosons that you can talk to you about. It’s been an increase in queries. You can talk me about on average. How much of you’ll video content of people watching so percentage of the videos of people watching? That’s there the really meaty questions, which I bet. Eight percent of people are asked what know the answers to unfortunately, because we’re still at quantity time in video marketing. But the the answers that people should not yet. It’s it you’re entirely riot. For some some businesses, particularly if your business to business, and you might have a high value by customer any takes one customer to properly engage with you’ll be content, and he can cover it self and it can be hard to quantify. But for Mehta magic moment is always when someone you speaking to someone you sort of a new business meeting or you think somebody might be on happen. And then they quote you back to yourself because they’ve watched BDO that you’ve done. And then you realize that moment it’s like, oh, I’m gonna win. This like this is why we’ve definitely got a good relationship because whether they were attracted by the video will not the reality is if they watched a half hour episode if you jabbering on on on YouTube, and they’ve sort of listen to the entire episode, and it’s like yohaf Marion GmBH already so. And that’s that’s the value of that kind of content is available can absorb get to know you build a relationship bond. Well before you actually sit down and talk about doing business. So yeah, you know eats. I like to think I think like that. I don’t watch the views, but. A got us. I I still get a little egotistical tickle when I say something. In two thousand guess but credit vice so conscious of time, and and it’s gone really quickly. Because I’ve just I was looking I had so many more questions. I wanted to ask you, I think what am I I think as a last question I want to ask you is this something that you thinking at the moment. Some who you believe that you find almost nobody else agrees with you at the moment. Yes. So there are a couple of things and the first one is this going to what we said about view count and people placing too much emphasis on that. When I say, you’ll view count isn’t important know. You know, get some strange looks and you shake shakes of the head. But that’s fine. Because on the surface of it does make it does make sense on the fifth when you scratch beneath the surface and look things in detail. The not duck so full is appalled. And I think I think the other thing is when people again get too tactical too quickly. So we will have. So we will have. Potential customers come to us and say they’ve go ideas for this video this video in this video, and we talked to him about two in what we do. We find out is no coherent strategy, pinning those ideas together, so even videos works, there would be no discernible positive impact on the business. So. Physically had come to you with almost to fully informed idea about how they want to tactically deliver the marketing campaign when I say much better off coming to you with a strategy in an objective, and then leaving you to work out. Exactly how to execute it that exactly we, you know, we even get decide room times this video needs to through minutes, which is which is crazy when you think about it because it just needs to be as long as it needs to be. You know, you you tell the story in the stop so. Yeah, I I always pushed back combing talking tactically too early. What we need to do is go to the impacts that you will. Video content to make install stall from that. So impacts will go strategy. And then you can we can stop talking about time to vent chest to advice. I must say I’m hearing you explain these things in one of my brain, I’m going this is exactly right. And the other part of my Brian’s going to do that at all charity, you run straight for the tactics as well. He might be a horrendous client, but fantastic. Thank you so much. And I I’m I’m looking at this list of questions that I’ve gotten thinking, I didn’t even get any of those questions. So I’m definitely gonna hit you up to come back on again. I think I’d love delve into the whole storytelling stuff because that was a really interesting tangent. We took this. I’m Cain to do that about for people that are listening, and I sort of. Yes, are like what I may have to say I’d like to know more. What’s the best? Why they either getting contact with you find more of your words of wisdom’s or videos of wisdom’s that you might have. Yeah. Right. So. I own Twitter. Obi on in a space in a little patch of time where I’m not being overactive on. If won’t go question. I always respond. A my handle is at April coats on the school Imia, which is a m I all in its April fruit.
35:08 – 36:36
And if people want to check out our website, it’s just Dewey Toledo agriculture media marketing dot com, and if they send an Email Gertz studio, which will get forwarded to two million again on any questions that people want. They want took expand on anything. Explain anything in more clear way than that’s fun fake. And hopefully, when we when we post here percent, I always posted I linked into your questions jump on the late in because I think as we said route of the stop there the engagements way more important when it comes to marketing so wreck into the judgment on on social media as much as anybody. So I’m gonna thank you so much for your time early appreciated. I know it’s my evening. Your morning, and that’s the one is the internet. We’re not the same place. But we can be actually think you time you wisdom, and I look forward to speaking. Joe again, some point later on this year, you’ll very well. Thank you for having me Jisr. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode. I hope we’re able to provide you with some great marketing ideas, it’ll really help your business as always if you’d like to support me and the show just jump onto Janes or wherever you’re listening to this podcast and write and review those reviews really make a difference and help me reach a broader audience if you’d like to connect the best way to find me on the linked in following me on social media, which is connecting. And if you put ideas for future episodes or your Marketa, can you would like to appear to Peter up beside just hit me up on leaped in as well. I’d be happy to have a chest. Thanks look forward to speaking with you next week.

Instagram success for your business with Gabbi Johnston

Are you paying attention to your Instagram engagement ratio or just the number of followers you have?

In this week’s podcast, I chat with Gabbi Johnston about how to use Instagram to promote your business.

You can listen to the full episode from this page

Find out more about Gabbi’s Instagram management services here

Or just follower her on Instagram here 

With years of social media management under her belt, Gabbi knows the tickings of Instagram like, well, it’s her job! She goes in search for earrings, ceramics, and basically anything that is labelled with ‘Made in Brisbane’, and loves scouting local markets to expand her network of amazing local businesses owners.

Some of the topics we cover include:

  • Engagement is essential for Instagram success
  • 85% of Businesses say Instagram stories are part of their 2019
  • Instagram stories allow users to be ‘real’ in 24 hour snapshots
  • The horrible Instagram follow-unfollow strategy
  • The Pros and Cons of fake followers
  • Engagement rate ratios for success
  • Looking at Uber Eats Instagram success
  • influencer on Instagram
  • The magic 10k follower target


0:00 – 05:04
Instagram now has ever one billion active multi uses around the world with a growth right that far exceeds that our Facebook, Twitter, and Snapchat Instagram is the place that consumers a going to absorb content that looks beautiful. So how can you use Instagram to drive your business forward? What are the tips and tricks in today’s episode we’re going to cover a few of those with expert cabbie Johnston to help you drive your business forward. My name’s Jarod Doyle. And this is the facto podcast where each week we interviewed mock knee expects from around the world to help you drive your business forward. Hi, welcome. To this week’s episode today. I’m super excited to announce that got Kebbi Johnston. Joining us who is an Instagram extraordinaire who is going to guide us through how we can use Instagram to drive out startups and asshole businesses forward, so Gaby thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me, not a problem at all we are in the same state. But as we put ’cause I’m recording remotely because technology is wonderful. And it worked the first time. So technology. Is good. It is going up wags. So we’re in Trump’s trading, and we’ll talk with the standard question. And I think you’ll be answering this one and Instagram’s echoed platform is what can you say for a startup found or are nervous mole business that they can get above and beyond the big brands by using Instagram for their business. Yes. The Instagram is really really personal. And it gives you an opportunity to connect with your audience in a really personal and visual way, which is really important, and it gives you an opportunity to to have those conversations as well end to engage in discussions and things like that. Which is something that a lot of really really big brands sometimes miss because there is so much happening on the accounts that I guess you can really get to know your audience in a really unique y on Instagram. I love tip about engaging discussion isn’t that such big brands they constantly shouting by what they’re doing. So that’s a criteria. So that’s that’s for the found or the end of us. Business to actually engage engage in a conversation with people are the brands or did anyone who’s out there? And with it ordinance is really really important. So letting that wouldn’t know that they’re in that convincing and then getting involved, and so that might be on your purse or it might be on some of the follow his purse wa or other brands as well that might complement at you’ll brand as well. So just kinda getting engaged in getting involved. So I’m curious to know, what kind of misconceptions do you find or an Instagram when people come to you? And they’re asking for advice where they business on Instagram. What you find the common misconceptions? They have about how Instagram works for a business people generally really afraid of the Instagram algorithm. They kind of hear that big would and they get really spooked at about it. But at the end of the day, it’s actually not that scary. And if you read about it and kind of listen to podcasts about it. And all of that. You’ll learn the algorithm is actually working full you not against you. That’s something really important to remember. So I don’t really know what the Instagram algorithm is what what what is that? How does it affect my business? Well, the Instagram algorithm. Ultimately, tyrod ties is personal purse above branch posts. So if you’ll yelling out to the world that your t shirts currently twenty five percent off Instagram’s probably not gonna show that a lot in people’s news fades. But if you show your one of your customers, wearing your taste shirts. I it’s more likely to promote that and push that up to the top of the news feeds because it’s something personal in. It’s something that people will likely to engage in. Okay. So so in this algorithm. So this is the algorithm that decides what is going to be the to open. I open up Instagram. What’s gonna be the top of my fade? What’s going to be the of my fate because it’s not time specific and used to be a time log, but it’s no longer in time. Log is it. Yeah. It used to be a time. Log and that was great. Now, it’s changed a little bit. But ultimately, it looks into the types of things that you’ll likely to engage in. So if you really really like rice ’cause at you’ll Molin likely going to see a lot of rice caught parse at the top of your fade. So it’s going to pick up what you engage with the Merced. And then show you more of that. So that is why it’s really really important to know your audience, so that you can get to the top of your newspaper and get them engaging with you did notice I am I was recently talking at the university here around mattresses quality mattresses sleeping, ducking cetera, and unless Audrey engage more with their posts. It’s like all the mattress brands appeared on Instagram was kinda like you wanna mattress where all hit is Ellen. I guess that’s a good technique. Then isn’t that? If you want to see how the algorithm behaves is do it as a user like change, your Poseidon change, your personality a little bit and watch the way Instagram tries to adult to what you do like now. Yeah. Definitely even when you’ll notice that if you ever have to buy a car or anything, suddenly all you will see is car ads and papal promoting Qods, sir. Definitely. That’s definitely something to think about from us appoint of you and a business point of view cry.
05:05 – 10:04
So other tips that you give people. I mean, there’s a lot to consider some simple things people can do that again increase the chance of that brand Instagram posts appearing little axle things that you can teach people or is it really just being real being real is a really really important one. But definitely engaging but also encouraging other people to engage with you. So asking questions like what are you up to this weekend? All let us know which one you prefer this color ship Luo red prompting people in giving people a coal to action is really really good invaluable. When it comes to engagement fantastic. And that could it gets back to the point you made before which is it’s about a communication. So if every post you make is you just chat him at something can people might look at it. And then pass on that’s entirely different to studying a conversation, or maybe even a debate that engagement that’s a windfall Instagram, and therefore it’s going to help to be a win for your brand. Dr exactly that’s exactly it fantastic. So I’m curious is there a particular area on Instagram that’s super hot right now as someone who lives in breeds Instagram? What’s the thing that everyone’s like trying out at the moment? Instagram’s stories Instagram stories is sorry big right now. And those actually a study done that says that about eighty five percent of businesses have decided to incorporate stories into their strategies in two thousand and nineteen. So it’s really really big. And it’s really important to jump onto the stories to make sure that you’ll kind of getting amongst it. Okay. So to the the infrequent Instagram us up maybe in like may. What is an insult? What makes it Instagram? Sorry. What’s the story? And how is that different to a post? Yes. So you come up, and you may news fade, and you that’s when you doing the mindless scrolling and everything like that. But stories is this new fate or I guess it’s been around for a couple of years now. I’m ended allows Instagram uses to be really real in pursed Firdaus of behind the scenes end what they’re up to. And they’re twenty four Alice. Snapshots, sir after twenty four hours, they disappear, but they really really useful to kind of give your audience in insight into who you are as a brand in as a person end develop more of that connection, which might be missed in the main newsfeed. There’s a bit of a flow for this as well as I was e e can you know, it’s about a the sequence of images Endo videos or combination of both. It can be doing. Yes, it has video is this fighters you can put in music say can do links to your Spotify account. You can also put gifts and woods, and you can. Ask questions and put up Paul’s said, they’ve made it really really use a friendly end made it really easy for you to engage with people and get people to engage with you. Which is awesome fantastic. Does the Facebook ad platform support stories as well. Or is it something that you find with my clients, they using it as an organic way to sort of rage potential customers. It’s definitely organic at the moment. But you can put ads in stories, which is really cool. And a lotta people on doing it at the moment. Sorry, if you can do it, and you have the main studio at its would be definitely something to jump onto as soon as possible on. It means that it will come up in between other people’s stories. So it’d be really really good. If you could fantastic. So is there an example, you can give us of a big brand, maybe even a small brand. But someone who’s doing this really well at the moment, but maybe we can even follow and kind of get that experience. And so to say, oh, if I follow it doesn’t matter how relevant to me is someone you can give us it’ll make me learn I guess from copy from the best that you would recommend abor eight. Is doing Instagram stories Instagram ads really well actually end kind of taking the really big ad campaign. That goes on at the moment tonight. I’m aiding and putting it into stories in that specific story platform end. Okay. And is that so that’s Uber. It’s doing is at the same as the TV ads. I see where they get the celebrities to share what they’re eighteen and that’s putting the Gorey’s. Yes. So they taking a similar concept, and then making it really personal as targeting people again, they know the knowing their audience in really really targeting them fantastic. Now, what strikes me about that ubereats campaign with the celebrities? They’ve gone showing that the ordering says no more than I can see how that actually translate stained Ceram stories brilliantly. You also saying that stories is some way way Instagram influences influences on Instagram. It’s anonymous like the big thing they using stories a lot to promote brands as well. Jeff innately definitely end. I’m particularly with Instagram influences with more than. Ten thousand followers. You can also do the swipe up function, sir influences can be like, I’m wearing this t shirt swipe up to show and by this one as well. So Instagram’s making it easy for people to just jump straight into a shop or an article or podcast from the Instagram story. Rutta ten thousands, the magic numbers for basically, you’re not really influence if you haven’t got ten thousand followers, apparently, that’s what Instagram saying.
10:05 – 15:09
A love that. Okay. So that’s that’s a big thing. I’m curious when we think about influences, it’s always good to delve into that just a little bit and understand ’cause they’re awesome lows. I mean, I don’t know can move. None of us are giving legal advice navy Gabby or I is this is not legal advice. Bought if you’re going to engage in influenza, what are the kind of things what’s the standard way? Now that you disclose that on Instagram. I think they influence is actually have to explicitly say this is an ad all and they have to use hashtag add if they are promoting any products. So Instagram’s really knuckling down on them and making sure that it’s really clear that everything that they do when they’re promoting something is said, yeah. No, it makes it makes a lot of sense. You you it’s the hashtag ad. I guess when I first heard about Instagram pushing this kind of disclosure, I thought is it going to kill it influences. And then you realize could true influence or it doesn’t matter. This is what we know you’re still borrowing from their brand. So it still makes a lot of sense to do that. So it makes makes it huge. Humana sense. Always curious. I mean, it’s an interesting platform Instagram because people it’s different to Twitter up this to be an awful lot of random following that occurs on Instagram and put it that way. Read seems like a lot of people follow a lot of people or even made like I highly ever a price on Instagram, and I get some really strange people following me. Yeah. I assume this is a strategy. Right. You could call it a strategy. Definitely. A look at this. There’s this big thing going around a cold fuller unfamilar, which people follow you to get you to follow them back in. Then they quickly unfold you, which is really unfair. An Instagram’s picking up on that which is really good and starting to minimize that as much as possible, but you might find that some of those really random follow is that you’re getting at ulcer butts, which is also something that Instagram starting to pick up on. So people are starting to Haya Botts to go out and follow a hell bunch of people end in return. They’ll get really instant engagement, but it’s not very long lasting nor. Is it old Ganic? Sorry. If you’re thinking of incorporating butts into your strategy, probably daren’t, maybe maybe four years ago, if you had to go into it, you might be done. Well, maybe maybe. Is your opponents are I get the vanities audit? Yeah. That’s an easy one. Right. If you want ten thousand followers to pretend that you’re important. That’s great. You know, take a box, whatever fills you boats from a business point of view. I can still see an argument to a degree that if you were to build up in a home in new business starting with full followers is probably looking little bit lame. So I guess, although I’m sure you’re gonna say it don’t recommend it. But I guess there is some logging lace getting a few hundred follow us to stop is that look there is bit at the end of the day. If you’re a business, and you’ve got Instagram you won’t you follow is to eventually turn into paying customers. So why would you want to I guess employees those two or three or four hundred followers when you know that they never gonna turn around and pay you’ll you’ll content oil products. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I wanted to, you know, I’m guessing we’ll guest when this which workout Instagram algorithm. But you would imagine that the ratio of engagement to your followers probably helps as well. So if. If I have ten thousand followers on one hundred real followers willing. Instagram’s is are probably got a really low engagement with my audience probably doesn’t even help you reach those one hundred engage people is that true. Or is that just me guessing about one might be doing? That’s so true. And that’s one of the main things that we try and wacko on as well that whole rice Yar. So if you’ve got fourteen thousand follow isn’t only thirty people lacking your things every time you I that’s a big red flag and again Instagram starting to pick on that pickup on that as well in it’s trying it’s registering the posting quality content or your follow his on quality. Sorry. It’s really dangerous to have a really low ratio so focusing on that right sharing more than you. Actual follow in number is really important fantastic events before better. Now, not my terribly low Instagram follow. Myself. They’re highly engaged. So I would I’d love to talk about one of them talk about now is if someone’s so we know what I know what you do businesses. Hi, Gabby win the super busy. And you know, when you run a business and almost everyone listen to this is going to run a business. I mean, they doing the bookkeeping they’re doing the marketing that doing products and sales and everything they need to end. So Instagram becomes one of those things. I know I need to do it. But I haven’t got time. So you can hire someone like Gabby. So that’s obviously who I’m going to recommend. But my question to you is what’s the best kind of question that someone could ask you what anybody else to find out whether they with this person really knows Instagram other a couple of questions that a business owner could ask a potential social media manager to find out whether they really know there is the grand from their face spoken. Their follow us on Twitter because you know, I feel like there’s a lot of people at that tattoo themselves as social media market as manages and experts now, so I’m QC on the listeners with a few it’ll tricks to catch people off guard.
15:09 – 20:08
Yeah. Fischel I think first and foremost, definitely look at this -ocial media because if social media isn’t doing very well in that ratio that we just talked about isn’t very high. Then what’s to say that they going to do any better on you’ll social media? But I guess ulcer get them to have a quick look at your current social media and see what they recommend and see if the things that they’re suggesting have any substance to it in or is it just kind of made up of the top of the head. So that’s a really good one to give them as well. Do love that kids. It’s one no one’s ever going to high main look off their Instagram look terrible. But like the thing someone might high today linked in. So yet really it’s a really good to be conquered arrive via south how you ever gonna get a ride for somebody else. Exactly brilliant. So I’m wondering if there’s a his a super easy Trico tape, something you can give listeners at the moment that you said to say, it has one thing. One thing you can give to somebody incite to do these one thing. There’s one thing is one thing, right? Instagram. What what would that be? Well, we’ve already talked about engagement but engagement is. So so important, and I would not stop talking about engagement and the importance about it on Instagram. I guess the other thing is focusing on as well. So if you’ll again, making t-shirts and your tesa clientele is anyone from kids that go to school to people in a retirement home. Then you’re going to struggle on Instagram because you’re not going to make content that’s tailored for a specific audience. But if you have a really really specific audience in you, nor your name really, well, you’re going to find it easy to create that content and then connect with people in that audience on Instagram Francesca, golfing buds of Anton, west perfect advice on all facets of the business nation down and finding that one audience and being absolutely brilliant. Perfect for them. You get the chance to find a bigger audience at a secondary audience light awry, but if those audience, right and and get them on board. I love the how do you see Graham changing? I mean, we’re recording this at the start of twenty nine teen. So maybe over the. Of this year. What what do you think the changes we’re gonna say Instagram while as the white people conduct businesses conduct themselves on Instagram like the debate for the rest of this year? I think it’s just going to get a lot more real with Instagram cracking down on butts in people that are doing that fuller on fully strategy. I think that Instagram’s just going to value real content in real authentic content. A lot more this year. So I think focusing on that in focusing on showing your customers who you are rather than showing them what specials you’ve got on is going to be really important really valuable on social media on Instagram as appoints talking about telling customers, what silos you’ve gone is. There a ratio. I mean because at the end of the day used to one zero products is there a ratio or is? It was the trick to blend. The two things together is is the trick with Instagram to put the product in the service into the post, but making the post social in its own, right? I’m not quite sure what the strategy. Is there? Look out really really successful Instagram a. Count singer kind of incorporate both of them find a way to incorporate their products into a really social I, but they say kind of every full full fifth purse should be sales. He pursed. But making sure that the majority of them are engaging in kind of more conversational than anything else. I did notice someone recently recommended a jewelry business. It doesn’t make any sense for me where they said they do this. Well, and I noticed they they really good. Putting what appears to be prices essential. What it is. But the he’s into the click on the product or the jewelry in the post, and then it pops up, and you can actually go through to that product. What what’s that cold and had a businesses Bill but into their Instagram strategy say making Instagram shop -able is so important, and I would recommend it for anyone that has a product by business, and it’s exactly that making it really easy for people to be scrolling down. And suddenly see a watch that they really like, and they can click on the furhter, and it’ll take them straight to the shop. So that there’s a bit of behind the scenes. Things that you can do through shop a fi- and connecting that with Instagram end. That will does make it really easy feel customers because if they have to click on more than one or two things you gonna lose them really quickly. So yeah, it’s the easiest way to kind of get people from being just a follow up to your being a paying customer. Does it only work we shop afire or is it just set up to work easily show performance wack easily wish up five? Okay. So any technically any business could do it. It’s just if you’re on shopper fi- it’s going to be a holidays you have to make that happening. And there’s no Tim thousand follow a limit to get. So follow is if you wanted to. Fantastic. Okay. So planning ahead. Let’s imagine. It’s a business in their thinking. Now, dude wanna do Instagram on a Bill that my strategy. What’s the timeframe in the time commitment like how how long does the strategy tight before you start to see some kind of reward and how much effort you need to be putting a realize it’s going to it’s Halloween is a piece of string.
20:11 – 25:07
Let’s let’s let’s all go back to my jewelry example. Let’s just imagine. I was launching a new line of jewelry. It’s a small line up on. I follow as a just finish shopper fly store. I’m pretty sure Instagram’s where I wanna be at how long how long have I gonna be playing on Instagram before I start to see any kind of commercial return on that. I think that if you can dedicate probably between. Half an hour to an hour a day on engagement or every couple of days on engagement. You’ll start to see a load of engagement back really really quickly. I’m that’s not to say that you’re going to say twelve thousand follows in the next four weeks, but you’ll start to see that growth in it might just be a couple of hundred follow a week to begin with. Or it might only be fifty follow is awake. But you’ll find that. If you do that engagement, and you you really put out quality content as well. You’ll find that at Lafayette to engagement back and you’ll find the people actually sharing your person really lacking it full the products that it is rather than just following because you’re another account Ryan. So we need kicking off for through in his there’s a theme like your advises various have a conversation. So you haven’t got an audience so engage with other people start the conversation. And then he kind of I guess people will wear communicate is by nature. Aren’t we saw? Someone south token to me, I’m probably gonna talk back. And then next thing, you know, you’ve got a new friend. On instagram. Okay. Exactly. I love that. So okay. So you could start engaging with people, I guess in theory, if you start engaging with someone has the right audience, you never know you could actually turn them into a customer. So it’s about finding that right audience as well. So finding people that would tend into paying customers as well. Fantastic. So thinking about that, you know, we’re moving away from followers as a metric Masan talk, more back home. And so if I’m trying to sit I guess KPI’s is spur hush thing decided, but what are the kind of metrics. What what do I want to be looking at to know that I’m doing well on Instagram? What are the kind of metrics and KPI’s I want to be setting myself? I wait, particularly focus on engagement and reaches. Well, sir engagement is the people that a liking commenting and sharing your purse and the rate is the amount of people that can actually see your purse. So the more engagement the more people that a lacking in commenting on your stuff, the more people are going to see it, and that’s a really important thing. Because then they’re potential customers in that the that makes a lot of sense. So so reach against rages that K thing, right? So having lots of people having conversations, and you’re gonna get that extended rage. And if if people are commenting engaging what are the chances of that? They follow us and people. Engage. We are going to say that post as as. That happened on Instagram or is that more of a or of a Twitter Facebook phenomenon it definitely happens on Instagram. Sorry, you doing that? And also using hashtags people can now fuller hashtags so finding what has times you’ll ideal clientele is using and following. And then using that as much as you can is another way to increase that reaches. Well. That almost lost point. Because I find hashtags on Instagram a non like Lincoln’s gonna Josten corporated hashtags back. Facebook has them a little bit Twitty uses them, probably the Muslim Twitter might even created the concept or the ones that really pioneered it Instagram uses a crazy for the hashtags doesn’t really make a difference in the business. And is that can you hashtag too much. Can you go is there like pay cash tag? Where you just go. For me. I find sometimes people’s price just look overly needy. ’cause they’ve got thirty hashtag house. Is there a strategy? He with hashtags, that’s the standard practice said. They say you should have a really good mix of really specific hashtags in at general hashtags that still to do with your industry. Sorry. If you have got your jewelry making business in you’ll starting up your new line using hashtags like Brisbane, jewelry makers and Brisbane creatives and things like that relevant. Yo pursed is really going to increase that region increase the amount of people that can see you’ll parse Hawkeye and is up because people following hashtags zora’s because if you’re engaging with hashtags of a similar story parts of the similar hashtag that Instagram’s lock throws in randomly. How does how does that work say people fuller hashtags a lotta people such hashtags as well. So someone might be looking for a particular necklace in Brisbane. So if they look up on Instagram Brisbane jewelry than yours will hurt flea. Pop up, sir. It’s just about reaching. Audience’s weather at in thinking about what they might be thinking about in getting to them this or thinking ahead friends house to brilliant Gubbay. If people have listened to this episode, and I think themselves are really like, ABBIE. And I I wanna talk to her about running my company’s Instagram page. What’s the best way for them to to find in in contact you? And I’m guessing Instagram’s one of the options absolutely one at Gabby Jay digital otherwise my website.
25:07 – 26:19
Gabby J dot com is a great place to find me as well in Radel about fantastic. Thank you so much. I have learnt more probably highlighted to anyone who listen to this. How little I know about Instagram which is not good. When you try to sell yourself as a marketer. It’s been fantastic. I’ve low into lot I still got more questions, but I’m going to have to save them for a mid level advanced conversation, maybe in six months time with you. Thank you so much time. Thank you so much for the advice. It was absolutely golden. And I look forward to speaking with you again soon. Thank you so much. It’s been great is. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode. I rep and provide you with some great marketing ideas, that’ll really help your business as always if you’d like to support me and the show just jump onto chains or wherever you listen to this podcast, and right and reviewed those reviews really make a difference and help me reach a broader audience if you’d like to connect the best way to find me. Of course, he’s on linked in following me on social media or just connecting. And if you could ideas for future episodes or your Maka, and you would like to appear in a feature up beside just hit me up on late in as well. I’d be happy to have a chest. Thanks luck, Allah. Ford is baking the next week.

How to Reach Clients in the Building and Construction Industry

The consultants at McKinsey  believe some businesses are about to make a fortune with helping the building and construction industry digitize and automate their operations. That’s just one of the opportunities on the table that startups could take advantage of. A few other possibilities include selling project management software, scheduling apps, CRM software and design software to the players in this lucrative industry. With construction being a 13+ trillion dollar a year business globally (calculated in Australian dollars), the potential for profiting from this industry is significant.

But how can a marketer go about reaching the right people in the building and construction industry to sell them software, automation services or whatever other relevant products and services your startup has to offer? If you’re selling to UX designers, it’s relatively easy to find them on social media — but most building surveyors, plumbers and glaziers aren’t spending their days hanging about on Facebook.

It’s easy to find them once you know where to look. That’s what we aim to help you with here: Finding your startup’s potential clients in the building and construction industry.

There are two major facets you’ll want to consider when marketing to clients in the building and construction industry. The first is inbound marketing — that is, creating marketing materials that compel your prospects to come to you because they genuinely want to learn more about what you have to offer. The second is outbound marketing — tailoring your outreach efforts to specifically target your prospects, start a conversation with them and determine whether you can build a mutually beneficial relationship. We’ll cover both aspects.

Inbound Marketing That Targets Professionals in the Building and Construction Industry

Your Website, Search Engine Optimization and Opt-In Email Newsletters

One of the most effective ways to reach clients is through your website. Be proactive about optimizing your website for lead generation. Capture email addresses and make an effort to segment your prospects. This will allow you to send out email newsletters that offer appropriate content for whichever stage of the buying funnel your prospect is currently in. Consider these relevant selling strategies for the construction industry when you create the content for your website and newsletters. Blogging is also effective if your team is willing and able to do it consistently.

Press Releases

According to Hubspot, you can use press releases for either inbound or outbound marketing purposes. If your team uses press releases, be sure to direct each message at your ideal clients instead of just the media at large; this will make your press releases more effective as inbound marketing tools.

Outbound Marketing to Reach Clients in the Building and Construction Industry

Trade Publications

Establish yourself and your team members as thought leaders in the building and construction industry by submitting content for, or obtaining coverage in, the most relevant industry trade publications.

In Australia, the following are some of the publications your prospects are probably reading:

It might also make sense to consider advertising your business in some of these publications.

Networking Through Industry Associations

There are many industry associations that bring Australia’s building and construction industry professionals together for sharing information and insights. Try to arrange for someone from your marketing team to set up speaking engagements or demonstrations of your products at trade association meetings and events.

Cold Calling

If you’re selling, for example, a product like a scheduling app that would be useful to individual plumbers, electricians or other contractors, it is possible that courteous cold calling could be an effective means of outreach. For this to work well, you have to target your calls with precision and ensure that you’re offering genuine value to your prospects. Know exactly who you’re targeting, research their pain points ahead of time, and be upfront about telling them precisely how your product or service will solve their problems. Also be sure to observe all relevant telemarketing laws.

Here’s how to reach your prospects by telephone:

You can find the phone numbers of many building and construction industry professionals in Victoria by searching the Victorian Building Authority (VBA) database.  However, individuals who hold a certificate IV in plumbing are not easily found through this database, and the relevant database for them will not help you locate unknown prospects. So if you’re specifically trying to reach plumbers, instead try searching the Master Plumbers’ database or using Searchfrog.

Tradebuild is the Housing Industry Association’s B2C database. It can be another good source for locating contact information for tradespeople in Australia, including plumbers and many others.

When you formulate your marketing plan, consider your potential return on investment from both inbound and outbound marketing. Both types of strategies can be effective for reaching your prospects in the building and construction industry.

Startup Pitch Deck Special – Podcast Episode #10

In this episode, I discuss pitch decks for startups looking to raise funds.

A few quotes from this episode:

  • Everyone is a pitch deck expert, some of the advice will even be good
  • You can get some real confidence when you see how basic YouTube pitch deck was
  • Pitch decks are designed to be “pitched” not emailed
  • A great pitch deck has very few words on it
  • A pitch deck is not a business plan
  • If you don’t win an investor’s heart you’ll probably never convince their head
  • You want to start your pitch deck with a story
  • When you pitch you need to create both ‘fear’ & ‘greed’ within your potential investors
  • Create a vision for the future with your pitch deck
  • Make sure you add the ‘secret sauce’ to your pitch deck
  • Please don’t ask investors to sign an NDA before you present your pitch deck

pitching your startup


Here are the pitch decks I talk about during this episode.

QUT bluebox podcast – featuring Gerard Doyle

A real honor to be invited on to Episode 2 of the QUT podcast Podcast.

At the start of the episode, Tim and Yotam talk about the QUT Bluebox Robotics Accelerator for 2018 Applications are open now and you can find out more and apply at

Tim and I discuss ‘growth hacking’,

You can listen to the episode here

A few quotes:

  • ‘Growth Hacking’ is often a buzzword that annoys marketers
  • Growth Hacking is really about making short sharp measurable marketing tests for your business
  • For startup marketing: Tie your product in closely with your marketing
  • I like to think that a degree still counts these days
  • Growth hack teams often resemble a hackathon team with a Hacker, Hustler and Hippie.
  • People try to re-invent the wheel, without knowing what a wheel is first
  • Growth hacking sits well with startups because a startup does not sit in a room writing a business plan, they get out and test
  • A founder actually wants to know if they are spending money and not getting a return
  • You can’t run an experiment if you don’t measure anything
  • A startup a temporary organisation looking for a repeatable business model



Ep7: Should you outsource your social media?

In this episode, I look how, and if you should outsource your social media. I discuss how to think about your social channels and recommend a great new tool I’ve found to extract the value from your quality content.
For the second question, I look at how to win over a target market that is expensive to engage and also look at how to use content to drive the more protracted sale.
In my end of episode rant, I talk about how the competition can’t just copy your brand authenticity, and how you generally don’t need to be afraid of the copycats out there.


In this episode, I discuss as a SAAS tool I ‘m testing for re-publish my content, you can grab a free trial here.

Key Quotes:

  • You really can’t have your brand authenticity stolen by a competitor, so don’t sweat it
  • I’m not a fan of outsourcing social media – this is your digital voice
  • Are you really important enough to ask somebody to speak on your behalf
  • Always try to insource your social media before you try to outsource
  • pitching for a search account is about the most boring thing a brand marketer can do
  • have a vision, mission and desired outcome for your social channels
  • Too many companies are just on social media because they feel they have to be there
  • Social Media Idea: Post less, comment more
  • ebooks are great, but if you’re hiding too much content, bring it forward and drip feed it into a campaign

Ep6: Can you do too much split testing?

In this episode, I look at split testing and consider if it is possible to do too much. I also look into the boom that was location-based shopping apps that have since seemingly disappeared.
At the end of the episode, I pay homage to the íce breaking’ founders.

Thanks so much stopping by, your subscription to my podcast really helps me to reach a new and bigger audience.

If you’re an Apple user then you can subscribe to the podcast here Apple iTunes Podcasts

If you’re on Android then you can find us on Stitcher here

If neither of these work then you can just use Sticher through your browser

and remember, if you do have any questions you’d like me to answer on the show please just leave them in the comments here



The Fractal Marketing Podcast – Episode 2 – Calculating CAC, tracking offlines sales and animated video advertising

Welcome to Episode #2 of the Fractal Startup marketing podcast.

In this episode, I discuss calculating the cost of your customers – thanks to for the question

We also cover the other common direct marketing variables and how to calculate them.

We then move onto more complicated offline and long sales cycle tracking  – thanks to BenchOn for the question

And finally, we look into the power of animation as a video medium – take a look at Big Fish &

If you would like to have your questions answered on the podcast, please add your question in the comments section here

If you’re an Apple user then you can subscribe to the podcast here Apple iTunes Podcasts

If you’re on Android then you can find us on Stitcher here

If neither of these work then you can just use Sticher through your browser

Below is a transcription of the podcast:


[music] Hi, and welcome to the Fractal Marketing Podcast. My name is  Gerard Doyle. And on this show, I take marketing questions from listeners to provide answers so that everybody who tunes in can learn a little bit more about marketing and hope they find some ideas for their business. [music] So in today’s episode, we’re going to look firstly at calculating the cost of acquisition of your customers and other marketing variables like ROI and ROAS and discuss the differences between those two. After that, we’re going to spend a bit of time talking about more complicated tracking models where it might require an offline sale or a long sale cycle and how to relate that marketing money that you’re spending very early on back to that end sale and the customer value. And finally, we’re going to spend some time looking at animation and the power of animation in video marketing and how we can deliver clarity of message through an uncluttered interface. So our first question this week comes from Cass from [inaudible]. And her question is, “How do you calculate the cost per acquisition if your primary acquisition method is profitable?” Good question, Cass. And I think it speaks to one of the problems with marketing is that and like all industries, I guess, is we have a tendency to create a lot of our own words, a lot of our own acronyms, initialisations, and things that just make marketing generally confusing when it need not be. I think back to some of the rules that people like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk employed in their companies. And they just started stopping people from coming up with new acronyms inside the company because it just made life really difficult. But we are where we are [laughter]. And to answer your question, look, it is still possible to have a cost of acquisition particularly even if you’re profitable because it’s only the cost of acquisition is only the denominator in the ROI calculation. So what I’m talking about there is if you’re looking at the ROI of your marketing, you’re looking at the cost of acquisition over the lifetime value of those customers. And that’s what you want to be profitable. But it’s still completely possible of course, and in most cases, you would have a cost of acquiring those customers. So when I look at that I think, “Okay, there’s some really important variables there that we need to understand completely to get your head around marketing.” So as an acquisition marketer, I live and die by these two numbers. And the first one is the CAC which is the cost of acquisition of your customers, so customer acquisition cost, CAC. This is probably one of the most important variables because it’s much easier to get your cost down with your marketing. It’s generally where a marketer is going to be measured. On the flip side, on the denominator side of this equation for the ROI, you’ve got the LTV, the lifetime value. Now, as a marketer, we can impact that. We can attract sort of better quality customers. In theory, they’ll give us a longer lifetime value. So this is the total amount of value or revenue we’re deriving from a customer who comes to our service or our product. So really though, generally speaking, that’s going to be a product manager. And that’s why when you think about growth marketing, a growth marketing or a growth hack team tends to involve both a marketer and a product lead as well as often a developer of the backend to help you. But that pigeon pair of a product marketer and an acquisition marketer is usually ideal. So that’s pretty much the most important thing as a performance marketer to really be measured by. And the reason is that that typically for a startup, or a new product, or a business is there’s an amazing moment. So this is after we have achieved product-market fit. We’ve found out customers. We’ve got 30, 50 happy customers or whatever we’ll define that to be. But what we don’t have yet is a really scaled marketing process and that’s because at the moment when we start, we’re probably spending $2 to get $1 back in. The amazing moment occurs when all of a sudden you can spend a $1 on your marketing and get a $1.10 back. And what that means is your CAC, your cost of customer acquisition, drops down below the cost of the lifetime value. And then what we’re looking at is, okay, what’s that payback period? Now, that ideally is instantaneous in the sense that you’re selling a product, so the revenue you get back from a product is greater than the cost of selling it. For a service-based business, this is a little bit harder. You might be looking at 2, 3, 6, 12 months payback windows, and that has a big impact on the value of our company, the cost of raising capital, etc., etc. But really these are probably two of the most important variables to understand with your marketing, and then the variables that a marketer should on a daily basis be looking at to see how their campaigns are performing. Now, I’ve also mentioned in there the ROI, probably one of the misused terms marketers do. I had a client about a year ago, in a meeting [laughter] who stood up and said, “If another person uses ROI instead of ROAS, I’m leaving the meeting.” And what he meant was ROI, return on investment is a very general [captural?] term, really refers to the whole business. This is whether the business is being profitable really. So I invest this much. Do I get more back? ROAS, on the other hand, stands for return on advertising spend, so ROAS. I told you it was a lot of initializations [laughter] and acronyms. And ROAS is usually the measure of what the market is doing, so this is where you say how much revenue am I getting? So I might be, for example, selling a couch. That couch might sell for $2,000. The actual profit on that might be 500, but I’ve also got other costs as well, be it staff or it could be facilities, accountants, general sort of management overheads. And all of these variables don’t really appear to your typical marketer.
As a marketer, I might be doing Facebook marketing. I’ve got no idea what the overheads of the company are. I also don’t know where the other investments have gone, so what I’m calculating is the ROAS. So that’s the total value of the sales, particularly if it’s e-commerce, then I know I can get that back. I know I’ve sold $2,000 worth of goods. However, I might also know that I’ve spent $500 to get it, but typically that ratio’s going to be much higher in needs, be much higher in ROAS because it doesn’t take into consideration all the other cost of the business, so you’ll have a client or it could be your business, and you can still have a ROAS goal. It’s just that rather than it being $1 and $1.10 back, it’s more likely to be $1 in and $10 back, so hope that clears it up. If nothing else, there’s a few new acronyms in there for you to learn. CAC, customer acquisition costs. LTV, lifetime value of those customers. Knowing that is absolutely important. Again, working with the project manager, working increasing that value, makes a marketer’s life much easier. Obviously, if that lifetime value goes up, you’re able to spend a bit more on marketing. And secondly, looking at ROI, return on the investment and how that differs from the ROAS which is return on advertising spend. Absolutely crucial that you get that right. There’s nothing worse than presenting to a client, or a manager, or a boss, or shareholders and getting those two numbers wrong because you just end up looking a bit foolish with your campaigns. The second question today comes from Tim from [inaudible]. And Tim asks, “How do you manage the ROI on marketing spend when the signup decision is not impulse driven but rather a slow burn that takes time to filter through the client’s bureaucracy? I justify it now by calling it brand awareness, but there has to be a better way to make data-driven marketing decisions. Great question, Tim. It’s strange more and more this is the sort of the area of questions I’m discovering as I talk to business owners. And that’s because the two biggest marketing engines available at the moment particularly online but even generally across the whole world is Facebook and Google, and both of these tools are absolutely fantastic for measuring [inaudible] online. They are able to track someone through the whole purchase, but when that sales cycle is a bit more complicated, when there is more involved, it becomes really hard. So to answer your question, look, it’s not easy and it’s kind of the point where marketing consultants step in and really help set a framework for your business. But I’m going to break it into two broad approaches for you, the first one is around post-impression platform tracking and the second is using correlations of indicating variables which is a little bit softer. So I’ll cover the first one which is post-impression tracking first for you because that’s the one I prefer to get to. So what I’m talking about here is normally in marketing campaigns and acquisition campaigns, what we’d like to measure from is a click. A click is that magical moment when you know that someone’s definitely engaged in your ad or your content and come through to your website. At that point, you are able to use whatever tools you’d like to track somebody through to an end purchase and ideally, that purchase happens in the same session but it might happen two or three sessions later, but it makes it quite easy to calculate. If that window is short enough, usually a few days, you’re in a pretty good place. Now what happens is, more and more the way we engage with media isn’t see an ad, click on an ad, make a purchase. So originally ad technology was all based around cookies and cookies were great. Cookies run this ability to [drop user?] a one by one pixel to drop a little text file on a computer or users computer and then if that person came back we could read the browser, recognize that our cookie was there, identify who the person was and go, “Ah. They were the person who clicked on the campaign a while ago.” Now what’s happened over time is that the actual cookie tracking technology has become less and less robust, lots of people are blocking it, but more than that and I think probably a bigger impact has actually been the use of dual devices. People have not only their home computer, but they have their mobile phone, their tablet, and their work computer. So often people are interacting with content at work, going home, sitting on the couch and then purchasing through an iPad. All that means for us is it’s much harder to track and this is where the platform tracking tends to be the easiest for most businesses. Now there are more robust tracking solutions out there but at that level, you’re normally spending enough money that you’ve hired a full-time agency to deliver them for you. So what you do if you are an owner-operator in a small business and you want to achieve this? You ultimately have to leave your marketing in a platform channel. So I’ll talk about– so Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google. And what you’re doing there is you’re looking at post-impression sales. So post-impression means somebody who has seen an ad and then goes through and makes a purchase. So this is kind of the next easiest level to track. There’s a big difference there. The intent isn’t clear. If I run a Facebook ad and somebody clicks on that ad and comes through to my website and makes a purchase, I’m pretty confident my ad drove the sale. On the other hand, if I show my ad to somebody who it appears in their Facebook feed, they don’t click on it but then they go through and make a purchase. Well, did that ad drive the purchase? What impact did that ad have? It’s not as clear but the great thing is that the person doesn’t actually have to have an interaction. Because you’re on Facebook, you can be on your work computer looking at Facebook, you see an ad on your work computer, Facebook knows who you are, you go home, log back into your tablet. Facebook still knows that that tablet belongs to you; you are the same person. So if you then go through and make a purchase or sign up or do whatever action we want for your business, Facebook is able to identify that and say, “Ah. I know, even though you’re on a different device on a different network in a different location, you are the same person because this is the same Facebook account.” So what we’ve been able to do there is achieve two things by using Facebook post-impression tracking; one, we’ve been able to track between two different devices and two, we’ve been able to track even though somebody didn’t click on an ad. Now Facebook also has some kind fantastic options in there like people who watch videos. It can be a fantastic tool to measure engagement and say, “Well, if somebody watches X percentage of a video, then they must be more inclined to have engaged.” That’s very different to an ad just sort of scrolling past somebody. Now, there’s no hard-and-fast rules. Ultimately, you have to define, as a business owner or a marketer, exactly what you’re comfortable with. But if you’re looking for a rule of thumb, usually, with Facebook, their default settings, I believe, are– post impression tracking is normally set at one day. So in other words, you need to perform some form of trackable action within a day of seeing an ad. Otherwise, we’re not going to attribute it. Whereas, post-click, we’re normally looking at anything from 7 to up to 30 days to say if you’ve clicked. That’s the kind of window we’re willing to consider attributing that person back. Now, attribution modelling is a whole other podcast, so I won’t get too far into that. But to get an idea of how you can measure these things. You can obviously extend that post impression, but it becomes harder and harder to actually decide what’s going to be working. So my advice to most small businesses is use each of the platforms, Twitter, Google, Facebook, whatever you happen to be using, LinkedIn, and do look at post impression as a way to see if your content or your ads are engaging people and they’re converting. If you want to get into attribution modelling, I’ll wait for another question on that. But probably the easiest way to do that is to have a look at what’s built into Google Analytics. Their solution’s actually quite good, and there’s some great models pre-built. So the second, I guess, answer to your question, and this is probably I think where you’re really coming from, is what about if we don’t really have that kind of control? What if I’m doing marketing that might be writing an article on a news site or newspapers or press or radio? All these kind of very normal things that you know are doing the right things for your business, and they’re building your brand as you say in your question. But is it really driving my business forward? Well, the sad, I guess, fact is we don’t know. And that can be tough for people to sort of, I guess, deal with as a business owner because you do want to know where my money goes– where all your marketing money goes.
We’ve kind of been spoiled as we’ve been moved into this digital marketing age where we got used to the idea that, “I know exactly what I’m getting back for my marketing money.” Well, we’ve kind of gone past that now, and we actually have to go a bit old school in the way we think about things. So by going old school, what I mean is going back to that point where– the famous quote that says, “I know that half of my marketing’s working. I just don’t know which half.” Well, this is where most large retail brands find themselves. So traditional advertising through TV, radio, press, PR, there is no direct line of ROI or [ROE S?] that someone’s able to calculate. You ultimately have to go with gut feel. And that’s why sort of the old-school marketers if you like, they’re still a talent out there that needs to be fostered and preserved. And I think, to a certain extent, that skill set’s being bred out of us by this digital age. And it’s only now that, for a lot of industries, the competition’s so tight that skill set’s coming back into its own. So what are we looking at here? Well, we can probably work at how we need to tackle this by thinking about the way that TV advertising has traditionally been measured and people have made their purchase decisions. And to get this right, you really need to go and understand who your profile of your target customer is, the persona, who you kind of imagine that person would be and spend some time looking at where they’re likely to be. Now, old-school TV, you typically use offline survey-based metrics, like it might be Roy Morgan surveys, build profiles, get an idea of where that person is and what kind of media consume and how they do it, which is great. But for the purposes of being a startup or a small business, that’s usually well outside the range of what you’re able to do. My suggestion is always to look at Facebook. Digital marketer [first?]. That’s where I’m going to go back. But the data that sits behind Facebook these days is absolutely amazing. If you’ve installed the Facebook insight Pixel onto your website, you can start to get an idea of who the people are, looking at their interests, their age, their demographic. You can look at the other kind of pages, the celebrities, the interests, the restaurants that they might like. This kind of data is available as marketers. So my tip there is definitely install the Facebook insight pixel, and you can get an idea what’s happening. Getting back to your question, when it actually comes to buying that media, when you’re doing a media planner for TV, you actually start looking at things like [inaudible] all the breaking points. And this is kind of like how many people are watching your show, but media’s purchased in TARPs. So this is target audience rating points. And what we’re talking about there is the media buyer who’s working to a plan for a marketer for a big client is actually are interested in how many people are watching your show who are actually their target customers. So what I mean by that is they don’t really value– there might be a million people watching your show, but if only a hundred thousand of those people are their potential customers, then they value the media by the hundred thousand, not the million that they’re actually seeing it. Why is that important? Because ultimately, the marketers have done their research on who their customer is. They’ve done their research on where they might be looking, what kind of consumer information, what media they’re consuming. And that’s where they place their ads. Now, there’s a lot of [inaudible] behind that. You really have to follow your instincts and see what’s happening. That in itself is probably going to be [laughter] hard for you just to reconcile with yourself. So the trick at this point is to start putting soft KPRIs in, leading indicators in that we start to draw correlations between end business outcomes. Now, go back a few years. And generating likes on Facebook was seen as being very much like a vanity metric. However, where it really resonated and why it took off with businesses and why they built up Facebook audiences is it’s a general recognition that people who interact with your brand, people that see that, it’s a leading indicator. So it is possible to say that the number of fans on a Facebook page is in some way correlated to the size of that business or the audience or potential size of that business anyway. That’s one variable, and it’s a bit of a weak one because it’s kind of being bastardised by people sort of buying likes and becoming fixated on how many people are liking their Facebook page. But we can look at other elements like what’s the total number of minutes or hours our videos are being consumed on YouTube or Facebook or any other media? What’s the total number of clicks we’re getting, the number of impressions we’re seeing, the brand mentioned? These are all indicators that say what we’re doing is going the right direction. One of my favorites is actually tracking the number of brand searches to your website through Google. So to do that you might say, “I know that my brand is increasing, getting more interested in the marketplace the more people who search for me on Google.” So for example, you could run a Google Adwords campaign just bidding on the keywords [inaudible] or mispellings around that, look at the number of impressions that your ad’s being served up to. It won’t cost you much for the click. In fact, it’s probably a good thing to defend your brand and control that path. But what you’re going to collect is insights into the number of people that are searching for your brand even if they don’t click on your ad. Those searches will indicate brand power. So that’s a really cheap and easy way for you to look at whether your brand is taking off. Now, can you correlate that exactly to new business? No. But it tends to be a great way that you can measure potential future success. Other areas you might want to look at is obviously indicators like visitors to your website, brand mentions on external websites. They’re all soft KPIs, but what we’re trying to do is map these softer KPIs and say, “Well, this is leading through to a greater business discovery.” And you’ll get more faith in the model the more confident you are that where you’re placing your brand is in front of the right eyeballs, the right– all the people that you’re actually trying to target. So it doesn’t give you a perfect answer, and I don’t think there is a perfect answer for this. There’s a lot of [inaudible], and there’s a lot of belief in what you need to do. But the more you can establish robust soft KPIs, indicators, whether it be leads or phone calls, all these element and so you’re [inaudible] to website visitors. These are all the soft KPIs I’d like you to build in– for you to build into a model to build some confidence that yes, okay, you might only be doing three or four enterprise-level sales on a monthly basis. I don’t really know what that is. So you need higher volumes and higher numbers to sort of get some statistics behind. So these are all the kind of KPIs you should be looking at. The other key area I’d add is anywhere you’re able to grab data and that data being sort of broken into three broad buckets. You’ve got primary data which will be email addresses and phone numbers. If you’re collecting those, they’re primary data points that mean that you can identify a unique person and also find them again on the web at any different place using custom audiences. The secondary level of data is people who like or follow. So this is your likes on Facebook. This is your followers on Twitter. And the tertiary level of data which is the least robust is the anonymised cookies, the anonymised pixels, and people who’ve clicked on ads in Facebook. But if you start putting these three levels of data down and you start to consider these data points to be crucial value-add variables and KPIs in your business or assets to your business, that’s when you’re going to get a really good idea of, “Okay, I’m definitely growing my audience that I’m speaking to.” And whilst it might not represent a pipeline in the traditional sales sense, it does represent an audience that is willing to listen to you and you’re able to reach in another way. So if you think about those pixels and those three different data points and you value them differently, they can be great ways for you to indicate future revenue and growth of your business. So I hope that helps. Really tough question, I’m not going be able to answer it absolutely perfectly. But hopefully, I’ve given you a few nuggets and ideas there. And rest assure. You’re not alone. Every business that’s out there that has a slow sales process is wrestling with those ideas because they can’t track end to end. But there are proven techniques from old-school offline marketing that work. And the good about it is it’s not as cut and dry as pure online acquisition marketing. There’s a bit of art. There’s a bit of [inaudible] there which yes, makes a bit harder, makes it a little bit more uncomfortable. But if you get it right, there’s a lot more value in your business. And it’s a lot more dependable as a brand position.  So finally, I just want to have a quick look at the idea of using animation in your online videos be it ads or explain the videos. I was inspired to sort of look at this today and [inaudible] question but by searching through LinkedIn during the week. And I saw an article on LinkedIn Pulse written by Sheldon of Big TV– sorry, is the head of content there. He’s got a great post, and I’ll link to that in the show notes where he’s talking about the power of using animation in your videos. And I think he touched on a really interesting point which is this idea that you can get quite distracted when you do a video when you use real people. I don’t think this is exactly his point, but this was my take away from what he wrote. As humans, we’ve sort of evolved around this idea that we make general assumptions, and we sort of say we recognise people. We have that sort of inbuilt human brain that learns from previous experiences. And what that means is how we relate to people is often how they look in all the information around them. So a traditional video, I’ve got background, I’ve got noise, I’ve got lots of movement. I’ve got these wonderful little idiosyncrasies that could be in the person that they’re interviewing in the video. It could be the subject of that video could be an actor. And the thing is my subconscious is amazingly powerful at interpreting the sort of the hidden message behind those people. And that hidden message in what they’re saying particularly if they’re an actor might not be entirely compelling. Now, on the flip side, animation doesn’t suffer from that same problem. Animation is able to deliver visually simple stories that are easy to understand. So all of a sudden now I can’t look at this like turn up in the eye and wonder if the person’s being a little bit sneaky or whether they’re holding back some information or can I tell if there’s something going on there? I’m actually looking at animation which is naturally going to be simple, but I’m able to focus on the audio a lot more. And the audio still portrays emotion. The audio still has the message in there. But the video, in a weird way, keeps my brain engaged visually enough so that I’m really listening to what’s coming through. And there’s a fantastic example that Sheldon puts there of a video that he created for the Queensland Ballet. And the emotion behind it is really clear. The animations are quite simple. I’m not distracted by costumes or the people. I understand what ballet is, I can see the movement, I can see the story and it’s coming through. The background and all the other colours that are flying around the screen are far more engaging. And I think this is something that we’re seeing more and more. If you’re like me, you’re seeing a lot of videos, influencers on LinkedIn holding cameras. And the problem is, there’s a lot of movement, there’s a lot of noise. You tend to judge the person, rightly or wrongly, by what they look like, how they’re acting, how they’re moving around, whether they’re paying attention. And animation doesn’t suffer from that problem.
The other great thing about an animation is it’s so much faster to produce. You don’t have to do as much with lighting, you can do a lot more in editing. And I can still do a shout-out here for one of the clients and one of the companies I work with called Biteable. And this is exactly the space that Biteable operates in. They create amazingly beautiful and simple animations for explainer videos that allow people who sign up to it to tell their story in a really simple way. And that’s often the case; the simplest stories can be portrayed in just a few letters, a few words. And the animation is a way to engage the person’s brain and keep the audience paying attention. The words can be quite simple. Sheldon’s example, they use spoken word over the top of the animation. Biteable more uses text, a bit like Twitter. You think you’re being restricted down to a small amount of text. But I think the amazing thing is the way that what would seem like a limitation actually empowers you to tell a much more powerful story. So I’d really recommend checking out both Biteable and some of the videos – you can get a free account there, it doesn’t cost anything to try that out – and also head over to Bigfish TV and have a look at a couple of the animations they’ve got.
The ballet one is hugely– so that’s [inaudible] The Queensland Ballet is quite an emotional and easy piece. And then there’s a second video they’ve got called Family Law Systems Exposed. That one’s much more emotional. And I think the power in that one is that you’re able to hear the voice. You can hear the person who’s narrating’s voice breaking as they struggle with the pain of the story that they’re telling. The animation isn’t of them. I don’t know what this lady looks like. I can’t see her face, but I can hear her voice, and that makes it easier for me to relate to because I don’t have the ability to judge her physically. I don’t get to look at her and make some assessments about who she is or what she might represent. I’m just listening to her as a person and I’m seeing the animation that brings that story to life. So if you’re struggling with how you’re going to tell your story, if you’re struggling with your website and you’re running copy and there’s lots of information there, I think animation is a fantastic way to explain a message or basically to tell a story. Definitely take a look at it. There’s obviously varying levels of it. You can go hire a great agency to produce top-notch work or you can go use one of the free online tools.
But I think there’s a rising use of animation and if you want to look at the best examples of that it’s just the rise and rise of Pixar movies and other animation studios, and how well those movies are now grossing because people are able to identify. It doesn’t matter what country you’re in, you can relate to two monsters that are blue and green because they’re animated. They’re not real people. Whereas any other movie you might like to shoot with actual human actors, there’s always going to be that slight judgement that occurs. I’m taken to a thought of a movie recently that came out around the Great Wall of China, but with American actors in it. It just grates you the wrong way. Well, grates you anyway. So take a look. Have a think about how you– what story you want to tell. And maybe think about using animation as a way to get around that need to hire talent and have along production crews and big overheads in producing what really should be something that’s fairly cheap to produce.
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