Instagram success for your business with Gabbi Johnston

Are you paying attention to your Instagram engagement ratio or just the number of followers you have?

In this week’s podcast, I chat with Gabbi Johnston about how to use Instagram to promote your business.

You can listen to the full episode from this page

Find out more about Gabbi’s Instagram management services here

Or just follower her on Instagram here 

With years of social media management under her belt, Gabbi knows the tickings of Instagram like, well, it’s her job! She goes in search for earrings, ceramics, and basically anything that is labelled with ‘Made in Brisbane’, and loves scouting local markets to expand her network of amazing local businesses owners.

Some of the topics we cover include:

  • Engagement is essential for Instagram success
  • 85% of Businesses say Instagram stories are part of their 2019
  • Instagram stories allow users to be ‘real’ in 24 hour snapshots
  • The horrible Instagram follow-unfollow strategy
  • The Pros and Cons of fake followers
  • Engagement rate ratios for success
  • Looking at Uber Eats Instagram success
  • influencer on Instagram
  • The magic 10k follower target


0:00 – 05:04
Instagram now has ever one billion active multi uses around the world with a growth right that far exceeds that our Facebook, Twitter, and Snapchat Instagram is the place that consumers a going to absorb content that looks beautiful. So how can you use Instagram to drive your business forward? What are the tips and tricks in today’s episode we’re going to cover a few of those with expert cabbie Johnston to help you drive your business forward. My name’s Jarod Doyle. And this is the facto podcast where each week we interviewed mock knee expects from around the world to help you drive your business forward. Hi, welcome. To this week’s episode today. I’m super excited to announce that got Kebbi Johnston. Joining us who is an Instagram extraordinaire who is going to guide us through how we can use Instagram to drive out startups and asshole businesses forward, so Gaby thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me, not a problem at all we are in the same state. But as we put ’cause I’m recording remotely because technology is wonderful. And it worked the first time. So technology. Is good. It is going up wags. So we’re in Trump’s trading, and we’ll talk with the standard question. And I think you’ll be answering this one and Instagram’s echoed platform is what can you say for a startup found or are nervous mole business that they can get above and beyond the big brands by using Instagram for their business. Yes. The Instagram is really really personal. And it gives you an opportunity to connect with your audience in a really personal and visual way, which is really important, and it gives you an opportunity to to have those conversations as well end to engage in discussions and things like that. Which is something that a lot of really really big brands sometimes miss because there is so much happening on the accounts that I guess you can really get to know your audience in a really unique y on Instagram. I love tip about engaging discussion isn’t that such big brands they constantly shouting by what they’re doing. So that’s a criteria. So that’s that’s for the found or the end of us. Business to actually engage engage in a conversation with people are the brands or did anyone who’s out there? And with it ordinance is really really important. So letting that wouldn’t know that they’re in that convincing and then getting involved, and so that might be on your purse or it might be on some of the follow his purse wa or other brands as well that might complement at you’ll brand as well. So just kinda getting engaged in getting involved. So I’m curious to know, what kind of misconceptions do you find or an Instagram when people come to you? And they’re asking for advice where they business on Instagram. What you find the common misconceptions? They have about how Instagram works for a business people generally really afraid of the Instagram algorithm. They kind of hear that big would and they get really spooked at about it. But at the end of the day, it’s actually not that scary. And if you read about it and kind of listen to podcasts about it. And all of that. You’ll learn the algorithm is actually working full you not against you. That’s something really important to remember. So I don’t really know what the Instagram algorithm is what what what is that? How does it affect my business? Well, the Instagram algorithm. Ultimately, tyrod ties is personal purse above branch posts. So if you’ll yelling out to the world that your t shirts currently twenty five percent off Instagram’s probably not gonna show that a lot in people’s news fades. But if you show your one of your customers, wearing your taste shirts. I it’s more likely to promote that and push that up to the top of the news feeds because it’s something personal in. It’s something that people will likely to engage in. Okay. So so in this algorithm. So this is the algorithm that decides what is going to be the to open. I open up Instagram. What’s gonna be the top of my fade? What’s going to be the of my fate because it’s not time specific and used to be a time log, but it’s no longer in time. Log is it. Yeah. It used to be a time. Log and that was great. Now, it’s changed a little bit. But ultimately, it looks into the types of things that you’ll likely to engage in. So if you really really like rice ’cause at you’ll Molin likely going to see a lot of rice caught parse at the top of your fade. So it’s going to pick up what you engage with the Merced. And then show you more of that. So that is why it’s really really important to know your audience, so that you can get to the top of your newspaper and get them engaging with you did notice I am I was recently talking at the university here around mattresses quality mattresses sleeping, ducking cetera, and unless Audrey engage more with their posts. It’s like all the mattress brands appeared on Instagram was kinda like you wanna mattress where all hit is Ellen. I guess that’s a good technique. Then isn’t that? If you want to see how the algorithm behaves is do it as a user like change, your Poseidon change, your personality a little bit and watch the way Instagram tries to adult to what you do like now. Yeah. Definitely even when you’ll notice that if you ever have to buy a car or anything, suddenly all you will see is car ads and papal promoting Qods, sir. Definitely. That’s definitely something to think about from us appoint of you and a business point of view cry.
05:05 – 10:04
So other tips that you give people. I mean, there’s a lot to consider some simple things people can do that again increase the chance of that brand Instagram posts appearing little axle things that you can teach people or is it really just being real being real is a really really important one. But definitely engaging but also encouraging other people to engage with you. So asking questions like what are you up to this weekend? All let us know which one you prefer this color ship Luo red prompting people in giving people a coal to action is really really good invaluable. When it comes to engagement fantastic. And that could it gets back to the point you made before which is it’s about a communication. So if every post you make is you just chat him at something can people might look at it. And then pass on that’s entirely different to studying a conversation, or maybe even a debate that engagement that’s a windfall Instagram, and therefore it’s going to help to be a win for your brand. Dr exactly that’s exactly it fantastic. So I’m curious is there a particular area on Instagram that’s super hot right now as someone who lives in breeds Instagram? What’s the thing that everyone’s like trying out at the moment? Instagram’s stories Instagram stories is sorry big right now. And those actually a study done that says that about eighty five percent of businesses have decided to incorporate stories into their strategies in two thousand and nineteen. So it’s really really big. And it’s really important to jump onto the stories to make sure that you’ll kind of getting amongst it. Okay. So to the the infrequent Instagram us up maybe in like may. What is an insult? What makes it Instagram? Sorry. What’s the story? And how is that different to a post? Yes. So you come up, and you may news fade, and you that’s when you doing the mindless scrolling and everything like that. But stories is this new fate or I guess it’s been around for a couple of years now. I’m ended allows Instagram uses to be really real in pursed Firdaus of behind the scenes end what they’re up to. And they’re twenty four Alice. Snapshots, sir after twenty four hours, they disappear, but they really really useful to kind of give your audience in insight into who you are as a brand in as a person end develop more of that connection, which might be missed in the main newsfeed. There’s a bit of a flow for this as well as I was e e can you know, it’s about a the sequence of images Endo videos or combination of both. It can be doing. Yes, it has video is this fighters you can put in music say can do links to your Spotify account. You can also put gifts and woods, and you can. Ask questions and put up Paul’s said, they’ve made it really really use a friendly end made it really easy for you to engage with people and get people to engage with you. Which is awesome fantastic. Does the Facebook ad platform support stories as well. Or is it something that you find with my clients, they using it as an organic way to sort of rage potential customers. It’s definitely organic at the moment. But you can put ads in stories, which is really cool. And a lotta people on doing it at the moment. Sorry, if you can do it, and you have the main studio at its would be definitely something to jump onto as soon as possible on. It means that it will come up in between other people’s stories. So it’d be really really good. If you could fantastic. So is there an example, you can give us of a big brand, maybe even a small brand. But someone who’s doing this really well at the moment, but maybe we can even follow and kind of get that experience. And so to say, oh, if I follow it doesn’t matter how relevant to me is someone you can give us it’ll make me learn I guess from copy from the best that you would recommend abor eight. Is doing Instagram stories Instagram ads really well actually end kind of taking the really big ad campaign. That goes on at the moment tonight. I’m aiding and putting it into stories in that specific story platform end. Okay. And is that so that’s Uber. It’s doing is at the same as the TV ads. I see where they get the celebrities to share what they’re eighteen and that’s putting the Gorey’s. Yes. So they taking a similar concept, and then making it really personal as targeting people again, they know the knowing their audience in really really targeting them fantastic. Now, what strikes me about that ubereats campaign with the celebrities? They’ve gone showing that the ordering says no more than I can see how that actually translate stained Ceram stories brilliantly. You also saying that stories is some way way Instagram influences influences on Instagram. It’s anonymous like the big thing they using stories a lot to promote brands as well. Jeff innately definitely end. I’m particularly with Instagram influences with more than. Ten thousand followers. You can also do the swipe up function, sir influences can be like, I’m wearing this t shirt swipe up to show and by this one as well. So Instagram’s making it easy for people to just jump straight into a shop or an article or podcast from the Instagram story. Rutta ten thousands, the magic numbers for basically, you’re not really influence if you haven’t got ten thousand followers, apparently, that’s what Instagram saying.
10:05 – 15:09
A love that. Okay. So that’s that’s a big thing. I’m curious when we think about influences, it’s always good to delve into that just a little bit and understand ’cause they’re awesome lows. I mean, I don’t know can move. None of us are giving legal advice navy Gabby or I is this is not legal advice. Bought if you’re going to engage in influenza, what are the kind of things what’s the standard way? Now that you disclose that on Instagram. I think they influence is actually have to explicitly say this is an ad all and they have to use hashtag add if they are promoting any products. So Instagram’s really knuckling down on them and making sure that it’s really clear that everything that they do when they’re promoting something is said, yeah. No, it makes it makes a lot of sense. You you it’s the hashtag ad. I guess when I first heard about Instagram pushing this kind of disclosure, I thought is it going to kill it influences. And then you realize could true influence or it doesn’t matter. This is what we know you’re still borrowing from their brand. So it still makes a lot of sense to do that. So it makes makes it huge. Humana sense. Always curious. I mean, it’s an interesting platform Instagram because people it’s different to Twitter up this to be an awful lot of random following that occurs on Instagram and put it that way. Read seems like a lot of people follow a lot of people or even made like I highly ever a price on Instagram, and I get some really strange people following me. Yeah. I assume this is a strategy. Right. You could call it a strategy. Definitely. A look at this. There’s this big thing going around a cold fuller unfamilar, which people follow you to get you to follow them back in. Then they quickly unfold you, which is really unfair. An Instagram’s picking up on that which is really good and starting to minimize that as much as possible, but you might find that some of those really random follow is that you’re getting at ulcer butts, which is also something that Instagram starting to pick up on. So people are starting to Haya Botts to go out and follow a hell bunch of people end in return. They’ll get really instant engagement, but it’s not very long lasting nor. Is it old Ganic? Sorry. If you’re thinking of incorporating butts into your strategy, probably daren’t, maybe maybe four years ago, if you had to go into it, you might be done. Well, maybe maybe. Is your opponents are I get the vanities audit? Yeah. That’s an easy one. Right. If you want ten thousand followers to pretend that you’re important. That’s great. You know, take a box, whatever fills you boats from a business point of view. I can still see an argument to a degree that if you were to build up in a home in new business starting with full followers is probably looking little bit lame. So I guess, although I’m sure you’re gonna say it don’t recommend it. But I guess there is some logging lace getting a few hundred follow us to stop is that look there is bit at the end of the day. If you’re a business, and you’ve got Instagram you won’t you follow is to eventually turn into paying customers. So why would you want to I guess employees those two or three or four hundred followers when you know that they never gonna turn around and pay you’ll you’ll content oil products. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I wanted to, you know, I’m guessing we’ll guest when this which workout Instagram algorithm. But you would imagine that the ratio of engagement to your followers probably helps as well. So if. If I have ten thousand followers on one hundred real followers willing. Instagram’s is are probably got a really low engagement with my audience probably doesn’t even help you reach those one hundred engage people is that true. Or is that just me guessing about one might be doing? That’s so true. And that’s one of the main things that we try and wacko on as well that whole rice Yar. So if you’ve got fourteen thousand follow isn’t only thirty people lacking your things every time you I that’s a big red flag and again Instagram starting to pick on that pickup on that as well in it’s trying it’s registering the posting quality content or your follow his on quality. Sorry. It’s really dangerous to have a really low ratio so focusing on that right sharing more than you. Actual follow in number is really important fantastic events before better. Now, not my terribly low Instagram follow. Myself. They’re highly engaged. So I would I’d love to talk about one of them talk about now is if someone’s so we know what I know what you do businesses. Hi, Gabby win the super busy. And you know, when you run a business and almost everyone listen to this is going to run a business. I mean, they doing the bookkeeping they’re doing the marketing that doing products and sales and everything they need to end. So Instagram becomes one of those things. I know I need to do it. But I haven’t got time. So you can hire someone like Gabby. So that’s obviously who I’m going to recommend. But my question to you is what’s the best kind of question that someone could ask you what anybody else to find out whether they with this person really knows Instagram other a couple of questions that a business owner could ask a potential social media manager to find out whether they really know there is the grand from their face spoken. Their follow us on Twitter because you know, I feel like there’s a lot of people at that tattoo themselves as social media market as manages and experts now, so I’m QC on the listeners with a few it’ll tricks to catch people off guard.
15:09 – 20:08
Yeah. Fischel I think first and foremost, definitely look at this -ocial media because if social media isn’t doing very well in that ratio that we just talked about isn’t very high. Then what’s to say that they going to do any better on you’ll social media? But I guess ulcer get them to have a quick look at your current social media and see what they recommend and see if the things that they’re suggesting have any substance to it in or is it just kind of made up of the top of the head. So that’s a really good one to give them as well. Do love that kids. It’s one no one’s ever going to high main look off their Instagram look terrible. But like the thing someone might high today linked in. So yet really it’s a really good to be conquered arrive via south how you ever gonna get a ride for somebody else. Exactly brilliant. So I’m wondering if there’s a his a super easy Trico tape, something you can give listeners at the moment that you said to say, it has one thing. One thing you can give to somebody incite to do these one thing. There’s one thing is one thing, right? Instagram. What what would that be? Well, we’ve already talked about engagement but engagement is. So so important, and I would not stop talking about engagement and the importance about it on Instagram. I guess the other thing is focusing on as well. So if you’ll again, making t-shirts and your tesa clientele is anyone from kids that go to school to people in a retirement home. Then you’re going to struggle on Instagram because you’re not going to make content that’s tailored for a specific audience. But if you have a really really specific audience in you, nor your name really, well, you’re going to find it easy to create that content and then connect with people in that audience on Instagram Francesca, golfing buds of Anton, west perfect advice on all facets of the business nation down and finding that one audience and being absolutely brilliant. Perfect for them. You get the chance to find a bigger audience at a secondary audience light awry, but if those audience, right and and get them on board. I love the how do you see Graham changing? I mean, we’re recording this at the start of twenty nine teen. So maybe over the. Of this year. What what do you think the changes we’re gonna say Instagram while as the white people conduct businesses conduct themselves on Instagram like the debate for the rest of this year? I think it’s just going to get a lot more real with Instagram cracking down on butts in people that are doing that fuller on fully strategy. I think that Instagram’s just going to value real content in real authentic content. A lot more this year. So I think focusing on that in focusing on showing your customers who you are rather than showing them what specials you’ve got on is going to be really important really valuable on social media on Instagram as appoints talking about telling customers, what silos you’ve gone is. There a ratio. I mean because at the end of the day used to one zero products is there a ratio or is? It was the trick to blend. The two things together is is the trick with Instagram to put the product in the service into the post, but making the post social in its own, right? I’m not quite sure what the strategy. Is there? Look out really really successful Instagram a. Count singer kind of incorporate both of them find a way to incorporate their products into a really social I, but they say kind of every full full fifth purse should be sales. He pursed. But making sure that the majority of them are engaging in kind of more conversational than anything else. I did notice someone recently recommended a jewelry business. It doesn’t make any sense for me where they said they do this. Well, and I noticed they they really good. Putting what appears to be prices essential. What it is. But the he’s into the click on the product or the jewelry in the post, and then it pops up, and you can actually go through to that product. What what’s that cold and had a businesses Bill but into their Instagram strategy say making Instagram shop -able is so important, and I would recommend it for anyone that has a product by business, and it’s exactly that making it really easy for people to be scrolling down. And suddenly see a watch that they really like, and they can click on the furhter, and it’ll take them straight to the shop. So that there’s a bit of behind the scenes. Things that you can do through shop a fi- and connecting that with Instagram end. That will does make it really easy feel customers because if they have to click on more than one or two things you gonna lose them really quickly. So yeah, it’s the easiest way to kind of get people from being just a follow up to your being a paying customer. Does it only work we shop afire or is it just set up to work easily show performance wack easily wish up five? Okay. So any technically any business could do it. It’s just if you’re on shopper fi- it’s going to be a holidays you have to make that happening. And there’s no Tim thousand follow a limit to get. So follow is if you wanted to. Fantastic. Okay. So planning ahead. Let’s imagine. It’s a business in their thinking. Now, dude wanna do Instagram on a Bill that my strategy. What’s the timeframe in the time commitment like how how long does the strategy tight before you start to see some kind of reward and how much effort you need to be putting a realize it’s going to it’s Halloween is a piece of string.
20:11 – 25:07
Let’s let’s let’s all go back to my jewelry example. Let’s just imagine. I was launching a new line of jewelry. It’s a small line up on. I follow as a just finish shopper fly store. I’m pretty sure Instagram’s where I wanna be at how long how long have I gonna be playing on Instagram before I start to see any kind of commercial return on that. I think that if you can dedicate probably between. Half an hour to an hour a day on engagement or every couple of days on engagement. You’ll start to see a load of engagement back really really quickly. I’m that’s not to say that you’re going to say twelve thousand follows in the next four weeks, but you’ll start to see that growth in it might just be a couple of hundred follow a week to begin with. Or it might only be fifty follow is awake. But you’ll find that. If you do that engagement, and you you really put out quality content as well. You’ll find that at Lafayette to engagement back and you’ll find the people actually sharing your person really lacking it full the products that it is rather than just following because you’re another account Ryan. So we need kicking off for through in his there’s a theme like your advises various have a conversation. So you haven’t got an audience so engage with other people start the conversation. And then he kind of I guess people will wear communicate is by nature. Aren’t we saw? Someone south token to me, I’m probably gonna talk back. And then next thing, you know, you’ve got a new friend. On instagram. Okay. Exactly. I love that. So okay. So you could start engaging with people, I guess in theory, if you start engaging with someone has the right audience, you never know you could actually turn them into a customer. So it’s about finding that right audience as well. So finding people that would tend into paying customers as well. Fantastic. So thinking about that, you know, we’re moving away from followers as a metric Masan talk, more back home. And so if I’m trying to sit I guess KPI’s is spur hush thing decided, but what are the kind of metrics. What what do I want to be looking at to know that I’m doing well on Instagram? What are the kind of metrics and KPI’s I want to be setting myself? I wait, particularly focus on engagement and reaches. Well, sir engagement is the people that a liking commenting and sharing your purse and the rate is the amount of people that can actually see your purse. So the more engagement the more people that a lacking in commenting on your stuff, the more people are going to see it, and that’s a really important thing. Because then they’re potential customers in that the that makes a lot of sense. So so reach against rages that K thing, right? So having lots of people having conversations, and you’re gonna get that extended rage. And if if people are commenting engaging what are the chances of that? They follow us and people. Engage. We are going to say that post as as. That happened on Instagram or is that more of a or of a Twitter Facebook phenomenon it definitely happens on Instagram. Sorry, you doing that? And also using hashtags people can now fuller hashtags so finding what has times you’ll ideal clientele is using and following. And then using that as much as you can is another way to increase that reaches. Well. That almost lost point. Because I find hashtags on Instagram a non like Lincoln’s gonna Josten corporated hashtags back. Facebook has them a little bit Twitty uses them, probably the Muslim Twitter might even created the concept or the ones that really pioneered it Instagram uses a crazy for the hashtags doesn’t really make a difference in the business. And is that can you hashtag too much. Can you go is there like pay cash tag? Where you just go. For me. I find sometimes people’s price just look overly needy. ’cause they’ve got thirty hashtag house. Is there a strategy? He with hashtags, that’s the standard practice said. They say you should have a really good mix of really specific hashtags in at general hashtags that still to do with your industry. Sorry. If you have got your jewelry making business in you’ll starting up your new line using hashtags like Brisbane, jewelry makers and Brisbane creatives and things like that relevant. Yo pursed is really going to increase that region increase the amount of people that can see you’ll parse Hawkeye and is up because people following hashtags zora’s because if you’re engaging with hashtags of a similar story parts of the similar hashtag that Instagram’s lock throws in randomly. How does how does that work say people fuller hashtags a lotta people such hashtags as well. So someone might be looking for a particular necklace in Brisbane. So if they look up on Instagram Brisbane jewelry than yours will hurt flea. Pop up, sir. It’s just about reaching. Audience’s weather at in thinking about what they might be thinking about in getting to them this or thinking ahead friends house to brilliant Gubbay. If people have listened to this episode, and I think themselves are really like, ABBIE. And I I wanna talk to her about running my company’s Instagram page. What’s the best way for them to to find in in contact you? And I’m guessing Instagram’s one of the options absolutely one at Gabby Jay digital otherwise my website.
25:07 – 26:19
Gabby J dot com is a great place to find me as well in Radel about fantastic. Thank you so much. I have learnt more probably highlighted to anyone who listen to this. How little I know about Instagram which is not good. When you try to sell yourself as a marketer. It’s been fantastic. I’ve low into lot I still got more questions, but I’m going to have to save them for a mid level advanced conversation, maybe in six months time with you. Thank you so much time. Thank you so much for the advice. It was absolutely golden. And I look forward to speaking with you again soon. Thank you so much. It’s been great is. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode. I rep and provide you with some great marketing ideas, that’ll really help your business as always if you’d like to support me and the show just jump onto chains or wherever you listen to this podcast, and right and reviewed those reviews really make a difference and help me reach a broader audience if you’d like to connect the best way to find me. Of course, he’s on linked in following me on social media or just connecting. And if you could ideas for future episodes or your Maka, and you would like to appear in a feature up beside just hit me up on late in as well. I’d be happy to have a chest. Thanks luck, Allah. Ford is baking the next week.

How can you improve your copywriting today?

On this episode of the Fractal Podcast, I interview Murray Barnett from The Creative Writer.

We cover why modern copywriting is for an active reader, and what an active reader is
The importance of making your content searchable
How modern copy is clickable & scrollable and accessible
and why to write to a persona and make your copy personal

Did you know you can make visually intimidating copy? I didn’t until I spoke with Murray, this is a major tip and one I’ve taken forward.

We also discuss how the savvy modern consumer does not want to be advertised at, they want to find information.

Murray shares a great tip on getting over writer’s block and he also explains why age is an advantage in copywriting – sneak peek – wide and deep life experiences is copywriting gold.

Episode Quote: “For your copywriting to have any power, you need to create a relationship between the person writing and the person reading”

Podcast Transcript Below

00:00:00 – 00:05:12
Make it simple. Make it memorable. Make it inviting to look at and make it fun to read the immortal copywriting advice from Leo Burnett. The founder of Leo Burnett company and creator of iconic advertising ideas, like the mole Berman now, you might not consider itself a copy run up. But if you’ll the founder of his thought up that’s just one of the many hats, you’re gonna have to wear. Welcome to the Franks Kosta his Jerry Doyle. Doc gates from around the will help you become better. Lock the yours. Hi, and welcome to this week’s episode and this week, we’re going to be entirely focused around copywriting, and helping you become a better coffee Baraja with you want to or not you need to be as a founder of a start up and this week we joined by Murray Bennett, do is the creative writer from the creative Raja dot com. Today, you Mary thank you so much for joining us Jared. Pleasure to be with you. It’s a fun topic for me because it’s an odd form that ever become earthy tat. But it’s something that everyone who runs a company or earns a company ultimately going to have to have that copyright a hat on every now, and then like whether they want to not that speaker copywriters, I’m excited to extract some of your wisdom and hopefully add onto the listeners. So they become better copyright is. And ultimately run better businesses. So this should be fun. Well, I’m trying to help people with running businesses. Let’s let’s let’s go fantastic, sir. I guess to get started. And to set the frame really token to business is in founders. Are we want to get a sense of what the biggest differences between say found doing their own copywriting? Oh, maybe outsourcing and hiring hopyard. Would it be company might be able to do in higher professional like yourself? What are you? What do you see as being the biggest differences in the way that that’s fine? They conducted. But also the advantages and disadvantages eight. Each of the different options have ROY. We’ll I I would say that the biggest difference, of course, would be income or the amount of money that you can put towards the copywriting that you need to do. Of course, if you’re a startup, I’m you may not have a very big budget. So you’d be looking at doing more of it yourself or even all of it yourself, whereas big business would be. Potentially hiring a big coffee running which could charge hundreds of thousands of dollars a year a marketing campaign. So I think the biggest difference is income and the ramifications that come from that. But that being said, I think that I can give some help to stop people with little oh now incomes spend on copywriters and give them some ideas that the content that they come up with is going to be at least effective. He makes a lot of sense. I mean against the the scary thing for a fan of his thought as you rightly pointed, it has a lot less money is that fair that they just can’t compete when it comes to create copied by con compared user his urine area where the owner of the founder of a company possibly can compete in copy with a seasoned professional is there any kind of area where that the have a competitive advantage. Or is it really a case of actually the expense tend to win through when it comes to copy writing. Well, of course, just because you high someone a lot of money doesn’t necessarily mean again to get results. But. I think one of the best things that inside to a found a with a little or no income to spend on copywriting is to talk about exactly what the relationship is between the writing that the raiders saying and the Rita if you look at guy back to English farmers school. For example, you think of traditional rules of of how texts works in one of the basic traditional rules is communication involving text. Requires a Rawda in a rhythm. Kind side when you’re communicating you’re in using spatial, you’re using texts. So I went into text you’ve got Rodman Rada if you’ve got vocal you’ve got listener. In speaking everybody, basically, understands the other important rule that you learn in school is that the rod or is the active role because they creating the language and the raiders the passive role because they understand the ledge or say that traditional rules shown in the digital world that will get ten on its head because in the digital world people who’ve you text online than or raiders they use. And when you’re an online user rather than being the passive role of just understanding language. You actually have an active role rather than a passive role. So if a startup Fanta can get their head around how these traditional rules turned on the head and follow some basic points that I’m getting dwelt launch shortly. That’s a very very good white get star. When it comes to running content that you need to raw. And when you say call this the the raiders activists because a lot of this content is in formats, where it’s social media, and they’re able to comment and becomes a communication rather to one directional pacem information, or is it something different about picked up that that can be part of it.
00:05:12 – 00:10:03
But when I say active role when they’re being uses they searching, the content they clicking through on content the scrolling on the content. They are accessing at in certain mediums that they liked to excess it inside rather than just being in a passive role. When you’re receiving information. You are a user has an active role in in if you like actively seeking out what it is you wanna find? So you are searching that’s an active role your clicking through on links. You’re you’re you’re you’re a user with an roll your scrolling up and down in deciding what you want to read your. Accessing information that you are looking for in the way that you want to do it. So this is all inactive all if you if you’re reading like, a Brian shore poem more magazine article year rated from start to finish. That’s the general why the win off to rate whereas people, for example in website jump here. And there they scan they skim the jump from point to point, and I can thickly turn away from something if they don’t like it. Whereas if you looking at a book, you’d probably great at least a few pages sentence off, the before you decide whether you wanna stop reading potentially whereas a website, for example, you might say the average amount of Thomas three seconds, the the people used to decide whether they want to stay there. So very very active role with with the not not with them being a user rather than a radio makes a lot of sense. I I must admit I had didn’t occur to me like that. And then I think about myself today, I was trying to work out what the standard image size Ovidio sizes for linked in video. And of course, found up high. Age. I didn’t Radel the stuff of the drive down. Got the information. They needed out of the middle of that page grabbed at kind of lift, and I guess g made by activists not just may reading top to bottom in the the way that the English language is always been left to up to bottom it much more. Again. It’s also made with my thumbs moving through the pages. And I’m cutting pasting. So yet makes a lot of sense skimming and scanning techniques that you use. Right. So I guess I guess for the person who’s cl- like the the fat of accompany his close to their product their advantages that idea that they kind of understand the use case understand why someone might be searching for that the content. They provide answers within that content. How to provide that Nick contextual sense rather than for example, copyrighted you might be given a brief and they writing it out of context. And so that’s possibly the context is probably one of the biggest advantages that someone is doing their own copywriting because they have to as you pointed out a has a slight advantage. But yet I think like oh professions. You know, you you like to think you’re the professionals again. To stand head and shoulders in most cases of the rest, so hit make sense, you’re passionate event, your topic in that can come through on your running. And then you’ll be able to give an authentic message because it’s coming directly from you about your product does. But the the the number one thing that I wanted to get across seas. If you come at it coming in from the perspective of what you might call traditional rules of writing. Then you’ll gang to file the only way that you can succeed as a founder in rotting your own content is to get your head around the idea that the national do rules now longer reply in that you go digital will rules rather than the traditional rules? You learned in school. And if you can get your head around that Dan, you have every chance of being successful with your content. Whereas if you don’t get your head around that you have no chance that’s fantastic bit more. I mean can can you break down. What some of these new digital rolls off at you. You’ve related to the first one I’d say is that content in the digital world. Is you searchable? So every word that you write has to have an SEO strategy. And you could learn about basic SEI strategies, you need to have Ron SEO company to get basic idea. If you if you have a would would press like, which which a lot of people currently have WordPress for examples, you can look at Utah royals look at ways of incorporating SEO into that you can do long tail keyword searches with Google incorporate that, but you have to make sure that you do it seamlessly not. So that standout. So that everybody can see. That’s that’s looking funny you’ve got to sort of seamlessly incorporate that into the text, and so you get a high ranking. So it does need to be searchable. So that when people want to find you they can find you. So the next one is click -able, you you need to have links external links internal links it needs to be scroll -able. So you use things like headings subheadings. What else seemed dance? You can use bullet points while print a Calix things that distinguish the texts you can sort of scan a route MAURICE really feels like a big one for me.
00:10:03 – 00:15:06
I’ll do spend a lot of time fleet through to the answer. And then I’ll read that section. So I get good advice. And the last one is that needs to be accessible, which means you need to put it on platforms that your ideal prospect, or why deal client is going to. There’s no point in putting a whole heap of stuff on Facebook. If your ideal customer or client is not going to Facebook. Then then it’s a waste of time and money, so you need to find the platforms or the mediums which they using and then put content with I can find it on those media fantastic that goes against the median dictates the the length of that content in the turn of that content as well. Well, of course, there there there are there are roles about that, of course. But the tone should be suitable to the coin that you’re that you’re running to another key tip is. Never never never never ride to everybody at the same time. Because if you tried to run to everybody you end up running into no one. So it needs to be personable. It needs to be intimate talking to picture the one ideal prospect of corn in your head and brought to that person directly. And then you have a good chance of building a report and making a connection. That’s actually getting the bold them to you. And that’s I think that’s that’s sound advice because his tour across all marketing often, mocking strategies with the creation of up a sign of that you wanna market to and you give that a signer a name, and that way, you’re able to talk to the individual person because at the end of the day, we’re human beings. Right. So we converse with people not stats lodge groups, and I often I often present Poseidon as part of a marketing strategy and the most common pushback, I get is that you know, when Odal every person’s differentiate concert lump, everyone into one designer and the way I think about that. Now says. Well, I think about all the great love songs that have been written and great love songs written to a broad massive people though written for one person. It’s just that the broad massive PayPal pull something out of that story and it works because it was written for one person. Not because it was written for four hundred people. Right. I mean, maybe that’s over glorifying what we’re calling copywriting. But it is. It’s it’s, you know, writing love songs running copy. It’s the same thing you ride to a person and the emotions going to strain. So I think that’s that’s fantastic advice. Thank you. Intimate intimate and personal names that the person on the other end that’s reading feels that that your your speaking just directly to them. You’re having a conversation. They’re getting to know you then they like you then they trust you. So if you go with the intimate and personal than you’re more likely to get ongoing clients that are getting to y from you perhaps for a long period of time animals, I may be giving referrals in the process. But let me just go back to the the scroll of a point that I was saying before I think very very important Bryce is visual intimidation. If it’s visually intimidating people are going to switch off. So if you’ve got ways to sort of not have big bunches of texts that’s gonna be intimidating and sort of make it more short paragraphs with two to three lines dot points. All ball ROY telex than it’s not visually. Intimidating and then people are going to respond better. So you want to avoid being visually intimidated, and I think that’s a very important concept to get across. I love that. I’ve never thought of describing it that way. But it’s so true. You know, if you if you look at a big bucket angry tech staring at she just think, that’s you know, that’s going to be hard work. And especially if you’re on at my all final tablet, if you’re on a computer, you can probably get away with a little bit more of blocks of text. But if you’re on my the boys these days people don’t want to try to digest or go through big long blocks of text. So if you think it’s visually intimidating on a on a computer screen. It’s even move visually intimidating on mobile devices and people are using my bowl. The boys is more and more which means that you’d go to be more careful about this. Stroll lable concept using subheadings indents short paragraphs and so on. So it’s not visually intimidated fantastic. I love it. Great advice. So Murray, I’m Cain to find out in your weld of copywriting. What’s hot right now? What a copyright is talking about him. What are they focusing their their? Attention on. Okay. That’s a good question in the last few years. The concept of what we call inbound marketing has become more and more to the full. So the paper. Yes. Yes, they have. And then a lot of other people have sort of gotten onto the bandwagon. It’s become a very mainstream term. Now, you’re on spot was the one that sort of initiated by the people who’ve never heard of inbound marketing before what exactly is it essentially modern consume? Is there a lot more discriminating when it comes to what they think about when they going through the process the boys journey of of of of thinking about purchasing and inbound marketing means they have control over the information that they’re trying to get so that they can make an informed choice.
00:15:07 – 00:20:04
So the the savvy modern consumer doesn’t want to be advertised that they wanna find information so that they can make a choice based on their own opinion. And that’s what inbound marketing is if you look at traditional TV advertising, that’s outbound marketing so that is interruption by saying drop you’ll life. It’s unsolicited. But of course, MC. Donalds Nike or some of these big companies. They can get away with that. Because they’ve got a brand. So people don’t feel very interrupted too much perhaps equals into familiar brand and its popular rand, and that’s fine. But for a lot of other businesses people are sick of being edba toys that night while the going for their own information. So inbound marketing is more, your blogs, and blogs is probably the number one way of going with inbound marketing, and you’re looking at trying to earn people’s interest rather than trying to buy it. So the big new hot thing right now is inbound marketing people are getting sick of what is generally cooled direct response marketing or direct response copyrighting because people often in in trying to make something really really I have an X factor. It becomes a bit outlandish or it becomes a bit too long by this white pill and dropped fifteen kilograms in two days or less. It sounds like shonky used car salesman and people that seek of that kind of really really full on direct response marketing. Now, I’m not saying that there’s no place for that. I think that you’ve got find your sweets flip. And I would argue that you do need elements of direct response marketing in copywriting, but not necessarily the full on that was popular site ten fifteen years ago. Yeah. Fantastic advice, I’m curious just to. I guess trains tax a little bit here. And and speak for myself, which is often find I get Arcus what’s termed as ride as block in. It’s probably the thing that you hear is the biggest hurdle, but most Fridays need to get over is that we maybe occasionally run into riders block. Do you have any tips or techniques or tricks of paper can use that gonna help them get over the idea of just staring at a blank page and not knowing what to do next wrote his block is everybody gets it from time to time. I’d I’d K who says that they died if they say that they don’t they lawing every Rawda vices wrought his block from time to time to a greater or lesser extent. I think the best thing that I can say to you is if you have rod is block, and your foundering you’re trying to ROY about something to do with business perhaps you could start off by rotting just about something that you’re interested in. So if you’re interested in school or if you’re. Interested in shopping, or whatever it is that you’re interested in Troy running a few Lauren’s about why you’re interested in that. And you you start to feel passion, and you start to feel the flow of of because it’s something that you’re interested in and because it’s it’s Loyd hotter than because it’s not to do with business the stress with potentially be less than once you get into that kind of flow in that kind of environment. If you like self imposed environment, then you could maybe transfer over to the business side, and because you’re already in sort of a flowing comfortable environment that will put you in a better position to stop writing about your business side. Maybe you can spend five ten fifteen minutes running about something. That’s a hobby Nystrand nine drama. Does something that you’re using is fun to you and write down a few lawns of why you’re passionate about it. And then actually you can try to transfer the same thoughts about. You’re passionate about business. Why warm suggesting a homey because you’re passionate about the Hobie? You wanna be passionate about your business? You want to show that you’re passionate about your business? Because if you believe in your product or service that other people will as well and sign if you can train them of that passion from your hubby to your business. That’s a good thing. And you’re already in a good mind frame because you’ve already started writing in your order into a flow, and if you can sort of flow on from that into your business that would be a good technique that all it’s just I really like them advise on I’m to apply that myself now instead of think I’m posing his game. I meant to write about something else. Something unrelated get into the brain the cable and everything’s sought to flow and then switch back into business mode and safe it continues. Fantastic. It’s like it’s starting to with. Sollers without without stretching. So if you think about if you just stop running cold it it’s it’s difficult to get moving. But if you do some stretching beforehand, that’s that’s the way to make the exercise more effective than I think that’s a good analogy that that one of the fantastic. So let’s say I do that. I’m still struggling I’m not really happy with my copywriting side. It myself. Do you know what I need to do? I need to hire a copyrighted into find somebody who can help me to do this bit better.
00:20:04 – 00:25:00
Or maybe it’s not my passion lies GMT tips for people out there who are looking to hire copywriter that could be on one of these could be on a freelance dot com, or it could be meeting a person to employ that company. But I was fined if you’re in an industry, you probably got some secret questions that you now if you could offset the buzzer on the right tracks are money, you can share some advice around hiring a great copywriter. Well, of course, copywriting is probably the biggest disparity in in rights that you can possibly imagine for any industry in the world because low in people who often high school or universe. City students want is you twenty dollars an hour. And then there’s highfalutin copy rod is that will famous that my child you hundreds of thousands of dollars for a campaign. So I kind of think of any industry where the difference between Hawaiian low is more profound. Maybe maybe Mashburn. Estrin? Maybe I think that wall prices that is an important question. Of course, you have to keep it in your budget the questions that I would be asking a pop from that in. Of course, you’re you’re bound by the the budget that you have to some degree. But the questions that I would ask a one what is inbound marketing if the person responding can’t give you a satisfactory answer on clear because that’s the sort of the hot area right now. That’s the area that the savvy consumer is sort of that’s the way that they thinking in fight on know about inbound marketing, I would give them a miss the second question the door in us is this traditionally communication involving text requires a reader on Harada does this relationship change when the takes a lot if they humming higher in Buckner, the ANSA give them a wide berth. If they say, yes, the reader is now a user and their role is active rather than passive. That’s a be kicked out. And the last thing that I would say is do you have any reviews argument? So they might say, yes, it’s all linked in vice Bogo Google wherever it is. And one of the things that people often think about which I think is very important. You could you could high up, Dan Kennedy or Gary hill Bod or any of these other wealth, famous Reuters. But if they don’t finish on time if they didn’t finish within the time parameters, you need that could be the world’s greatest copyrighted with the Bill. Best results that went main anything if it doesn’t fit in time for him. It is you have one of the interesting things is people don’t write good reviews for people who don’t finish on time. So even if the review doesn’t specifically mentioned finishing on Paulin. They won’t get a good one. If I don’t finish all so if you read reviews, and they’re all essentially good something like finishing on time. You’d be almost assured that that would be a take my side. I would also straight questions one. What is inbound marketing to what is the relationship involving online takes between the reader on the raw data and three? Do you have any reviews? Fantastic advice. All all make sure I I’m trying to notarize those put them in the post when we live because inevitably people be listening to this when they’re running driving walking or whatever it is. And not in your opinion pencils? I’ll try to get them to the post nights for us. So looking forward to bit now is that something you can see changing. Is there an area where you think copyright? It’s gonna change even more. We spoke about what’s hawk right now. But when you see copywriting going in the next two to three years, some people might feel I’m on hopping on this. But I really think there’s gonna be more because on inbound marketing unless bikes on outbound marketing because people are getting they know that there’s a lot of choice out there. They want to research in finding out what’s going on before die by. Of course, there are certain areas. There are certain industries where out ban marketing works better. But for the vast majority of industries, I think inbound marketing is very important now and will continue to become even more important. So that would that would be. My answer. More and more focus on the inbound marketing in the next one to two years. So if you don’t have an inbound marketing strategy, you are losing potential once or of intestate, I’m curious to have a em an ad campaign. Or branded the moment that you think is absolutely nine met copywriting that that you listen is could go and check out the the way of advertising yourself in marketing yourself, I think very very important. Blogs at the moment because logs are quite a great way to set yourself up as the expert at the top of the mountain, and the people can sort of say, okay. This person is what they’re talking about. It gives you a soda of authenticity issue. A kind of credibility that people are going to respond to. If people are really interested in finding out about how advertising and marketing a working at the moment. I would look around at some different logs. And and say how the message is projected in that way.
00:25:00 – 00:30:11
I think that’s more effective than listening to a radio modus mineral, TV Goethe’s minute. The my show thing is something fit in your mind at the moment that your working towards like a truth that you think or your believing at the moment, but you find almost nobody agrees with you on his something that you’ve got a crazy idea. And no one a great yet. One thing. I think that I’ve found nobody agrees with me on his age is an advantage in copy, Rodney interesting. I am by no means the youngest youngest copy Roger out there. And a lot of people think well in order to understand the digital world you need to be up. Now, certainly if you’re young God you’ve been around it all your life. Whereas. Person. That’s may not have been. But when it comes to writing content having a wider experience having a deep perspective if you’ve traveled overseas if you have in a life experiences that you can draw on you’d be surprised how many copyright his out the us. Listen templates in order to create Kobe never use a list of words or or attempt light because I will make something unique Tyler made for the colonial customer that all I have. I wanted to put a round peg into a square hole or manufacture something. That’s not our daily for them based on some kind of templates. I because I have because I’m a little bit older. Maybe I have a water experience may be a wider perspective than people that are younger than me. And I think that is really really helpful when it comes to writing for making connections with people because they linked together. More expense water perspective gives you the I think bene- check. To create a connection that actually bones with people I’ve got to agree with your. I think though, the older I get I like to be the same as you. I like to think more and more that experience gives you that ability to create long-lasting campaigns, ideas and strategies, whereas you a Coleman new kids on the block turn up there quite a couple of tracks a couple of techniques templates lists as you put them, and yet they might work now current format of Graham and the whites it’s going, but actually what you haven’t learned is the essence of the outfall, and that comes lighter with variance. Six months, maybe. And then that’s a trend that sort of is not so popular anymore on people. Go the next Trent and trans are reporting to keep up with don’t get me wrong. But copywriting at its essence is look at the second part of the wood. Roy you have to have an understanding of writing you need to understand that in order for riding to really have any power at all you need to create a relationship between of the words between the person that’s running in the person’s is reading and that will never change. No matter what kind of writing it is so true. So I if you don’t understand about how to create relationships with rotting, and you don’t have the experience to do that. Then you’re rotting will never reach the moxie to offend testing advice. So last question for Marie before we sought to wrap up paint a scenario in your mind, where you’ve gone to a cafe have you’ve met a young found. She’s looking for a little bit of advice, and you can leave her with one short. Sings bit of advice is gonna help her has. Found improve copywriting very business. What’s that advice that you’re going to give her to take away that’s going to make the biggest difference to business? The thing that I would start off by saying is that personally I love running on passionate about making people feel something with the content that on Rodney. So so that’s what I’d stop it. And then I’d look at that look at that person on Athas question. Do you have a passion for ROY? It’s very very time consuming. There’s rejection involved. In other words, you try to run something in a dozen measure out from why perspective of our recline. They might they may not necessarily lock it. The first time or you use end in a proposal in the end, I may potentially go with someone else every copy run in the world as experienced time consuming things where your your brain goes numb every copy rooted in the world has been rejected at some stage with a client with choosing someone else. So do have the fortitude. Do you have the resilience? Do you have? The discipline. Do you have the self empowerment to to to focus on this area? Or is it better to quit your energy somewhere else? So if they feel that that yes, they can make all of those requirements as far as the copyright goes. Then sure go ahead and potentially do the copywriting yourself. But if you know in your own hop that you don’t meet those things even if there’s a cost involved. I would argue go with some other alternative than yourself because each person only has a limited amount of time in the day to do things, and it would be more cost effective buy from Tom and money if you were to delegate that to someone else if you didn’t make those those requirements that always that always telling that person about Brian a great segue to the loss pot which is Murray.
00:30:12 – 00:32:05
Someone’s been listening to their tonight think to themselves maybe I’m not passionate about copyrighting. Maybe I don’t want to face rejection. Maybe I don’t want people criticize. In my writing I’d much rather have Murray face that criticism for me. Let’s them to find you. Ok well, they can send me an Email at info at the creative writer dot com. Today. You can check out my website where I have parentally. I think it’s twenty seven blows about compelling copywriting. And also wrote his workshop that can also call me my ball zero zero zero three two eight one eight seven so whichever way they preferred to get in contact with me in any way as guy, and I will respond to them if if it’s by Email or through my website, I will respond to them as quickly as possible fantastic. Thank you so much for the tips. I’m really looking forward to pointing out people’s intimidating block content. Now now that I’ve got that phrase. But thank you so much for you time. Thank you so much be insides. And thank you for being on the show. I’ve really enjoyed being a Jared. Thank you for inviting me, and I really hope that the information is not giving out today will will be helpful to the people that will sneak absolutely has been. Thank you so much. All right. Thanks very much. Thanks for listening to this week’s episode. I hope we’re able to provide you with some great marketing ideas, that’ll really help your business as always if you’d like to support me and the show just jump onto Janes or wherever you listen to this podcast and write and review those reviews really make a difference and help me reach a broader audience if you’d like to connect the best way to find me. Of course, he’s on linked in following me on social media, just connecting. And if you could ideas for future episodes or your Marketa, and you would like to appear on a future episode just hit me up on linked in as well. I’d be happy to have a chat. Thanks look at look forward to speaking with you next week.

Content Marketing Funnels for Startups with Kellie Jade Duggan

This episode takes a deep look into content marketing tactics with Kellie Jade Duggan from Metagenics.

You can hear the full interview with Kellie here or download on Spotify, iTunes or Stitcher.

  • Right Audience at the right time
  • Channel Specific content marketing
  • Equipment needs for your content production
  • Timing your content and funnel positioning
  • the rise of video content and IGTV
  • Facebook live for content marketing
  • Listen to Kellie define “Low-fi and on the fly”
  • we also highlight our lack of knowledge on the names for the different generational names, GenX, Gen Y, Gen Z & Mellinials.
  • Hot tip: keep your content ‘real’ and earn some cut through and authenticity
  • Creating content with a purpose; for the right channel, objective, demographic, engagement
  • the idea of conversational content

Here are some Instagram accounts Kellie mentions

@ethicalnutrients @innerhealthau @therainbowbabes

Don’t forget to help Finnley reach his 10k follower target 😉

Episode Transcript

0:00 – 05:02
Content marketing can be one of the most efficient ways for founder of Assad company to drive that business forward. It’s authentic. It’s engaging and can be a whole lot cheaper than traditional advertising. In today’s episode. We talk with Kelly about the best ways to really hung, your content marketing strategy, how you engage in audience and building content funnels. I’m Jerry Doyle. And this is the facto podcast where we bring the mocking experts from all around the world to you. And awesome advice tips tricks and the things that you can do to drive your business forward. Welcome to this way show. Hi. And welcome to this week’s episode this week where privileged to be joined by Kelly j Duggan who is someone who I’ve had the privilege of working with. But I think months ago we worked on an F M C J Branko Pecci together, and since then Kelly’s gone on to really calm out a niche as in my opinion, a Brandon content marketing, especially round the health FM, CJ sector. So today, we’re gonna be talking about content, and specifically content around social media and peaking Kelly’s Brian to help you with your businesses. Now, you can use content more strategically cycle. Thank you for joining us, Oklahoma. Lol not a problem. So looking to jump straight in because we’re talking to founders and owners of small businesses the way, we always kick off these you’ve got experience now working with some pretty big brands with some decent budgets, and that can be intimidating if you’re a founder nice little coming up against you with you know, it more money for Betty cameras etcetera. So what I wanna know is gene have any tapes of house on his fan of a startup or small business can compete in content marketing of advantages, can they have over the logical per to have got understandably much larger budgets absolutely while. I think what. So I work at medic exile cops that in a health and ethical Nate trance outright out brands. And I think what makes us a little bit different to some of the pharmaceutical companies is that instead of out sourcing content. We actually produce it all in house. So we like to we’re bit different traditional gamma in that we have the ability to to work a little bit more agile, and we’re able to produce content really fast on the small budgets, which is something. That’s very I guess attainable. And possible for for some flack, I found out that doesn’t have the big budgets. It’s a good idea. So if I’m thinking about a culprit that may be. Sending stuff off the studio when agencies and getting stuff ten around town copies quite slow. So as a fan rock that capacity to produce containing house, which means Spade to Mollica, it’s going to be one of my competitive advantages makes a lot of sense. I think as a good strategy in actually is interesting that you’ve incorporated that kind of nimble strategy into a much larger company. Do you think that’s a trend? That’s happening. More and more logic companies studying to baby nimble in bringing the content production in house, or is that something unique that you bring to the table. I mean, I think it really kind. As is reflective of the way that social media is is moving towards at the moment. So traditionally that Facebook is more of a text based platform designed for desktop, but when now moving towards a platform, which is drilling mobile fest. With the advent of faces like the stories fate shot on its to Graham on Facebook. It’s really all about having that moment marketing so being able to cut in the marine experiences end. You obviously catch a lot of in the moment experiences from your mobile device. Sorry, really. We’re you to use Amway bow to to drive a lot this mobile fest content. Interesting, and I think that links back to you. So saying about building your GD or having your own studio. I mean, let’s kind of minimum equipment what kind of set up. Would you be recommending people get someone you spec about a fines, I’m guessing that’s the benefit where these super cameras now in pockets, I’m guessing you can produce a content with your phone. What else would you be adding to that makes absolutely? The thing is we’ve got a lot of technology bills around by vowed devices as well, so you can buy you can you can buy Kimble’s THEO my ball find. So that you can have really smooth Smith content, really high quality content. So my advice visiting hit will JIMBO JIMBO. Yeah. Sorry. Kimball is it’s it’s kind of a device which allows you to hold the fine. It gives you a steady shot. So traditionally Kimble’s full video camera. I am when you talk about acting them advertised on Facebook there, those twisty hand things that allow you to sort of move your hand around, but the cameras toll size still trae. Yeah. So you go Trimble’s you will say God. Yes. Southeast digs for instance. A big thing that weighed moving towards is really looking internally at accents.
05:02 – 10:02
And how we can tell out brand stories for brands through internet tunnel. Ex- ex- bet. Sorry, you know, whether that’s you know. Off the cough interviews with with the in a science lab with with some of our technical expert. So whether that’s we out team of natural gas who he I have have great knowledge in running an impromptu, a like FAQ on Facebook live on Instagram live in and really doing those really off the cuff in the moment experiences using your internal resources and end that wisdom and being able to create really really value. Add obits Unity’s to talk to you. You’ll consumers awesome. What by one what they want United to heal and being outta onto that in real time. Expense to come on. The guy was fined getting someone to come on a podcast is hard little line, filming them. Gee, just have to manipulate the mortgages tenant with the Cameroon. Go action. Well, about sir is working at a company like meta jenex where a lot of stuff natural gas, and they’re very passionate about breeding, the healthy lifestyle messaging that they have a wealth of knowledge that never really passionate about the role that you know, that vitamins and minerals can contribute to a healthy lifestyle. And as a bit of a preventative kind of health. Method. Really? So they have messages that they want to send. So they’re more than happy to to jump in front of the camera and until the stories in spread that wisdom. Then that’s the benefit of working for business where it’s operating to Ohio up, as you know, people are in there for a reason above and beyond just a job in a paycheck. They’re in there because they’re driving some ultimate goal makes lot of sense passionate paper as well. Always make the best contents side. Anyone that’s passionate, you know, you’ve got a bit. You know? No one’s more passionate than than the founder. So I even using yourself as as the content as the expert and. Bringing that that passion through makes for engaging content for an audience. Voice. So I’m curious maybe touching on things that are a little bit wrong to the easy out there in the marketplace wanted some of the misconceptions will maybe even mistakes see people doing what they content marketing when they go live with it. Is there a nephew examples? But what are you saying that they have joing about content marketing the in the wrong way? Definitely speaking your product too much. I think when it comes to content it really comes to bang, adding some kind of value, and I think, you know, sometimes it’s it’s more about thinking about what the customer is is actually gonna find useful, you know, in that has some kind of tangible benefit, and there’s ways to close the loop in what your product didn’t somewhere by definitely not having a product this approach and really coming from a consumer Centric value. Add approach. That’s really good advice. You do see it all the time. Don’t you? Mm recriminations particularly bad at this site. The only content they can produce his we’ve got a job to fill. It’s kind of an easy one onto recruitment agents who really get it. Right. And then provide value add all of a sudden, it’s like all my business takes off. So nothing. That’s that’s really sounded is exactly. In terms of what’s sort of hot right now. You mentioned stories on Instagram is is one particular area that’s becoming physically honk other other areas for content marketing that you see us sort of starting to take off and people should be focusing on twenty during twenty nineteen. Folks, if you look at the at social media in the world of social social media, it’s getting increasingly clotted, the survey different marketing messages in it’s getting hotter and hotter to cut through. So I think for that reason when when you got brands in products competing for people’s attention, a one size fits all approach. Never works. So it’s really about knowing who you’re talking to end creating audience basic mint messaging and delivering relevant interestingly untimely contents that individual, you know, people people want to be treated as individuals demographics as dies. Sorry. Knowing your audience, knowing what your audience once in being able to deliver that right content at the right time for the right person is is really important more important than ever. Advice really is about thinking about the messaging time the president much more than the channel on the tactics. Bryant side so personalization is a big a big big focus for twenty nine content. Marketing definite. I definitely I think it’s also about thinking about what the right China leans at the right time and the right message for that channel. So delivering deliver Todd content not only for that consumer. But but for that channel built for that channel than you. You you can’t have a one size fits all across all the channels as well.
10:02 – 15:01
Sorry, really understanding, you know, which channel sit at different parts of the of the funnel as well. An really really designing content specifically for that channel and that audience of that right time. Actually, taking the time to produce even the same coal content that differently for different channels makes sense. I guess. You know, he’s a logical process. I’m Cain to explore a little bit more on. You’re talking about timing. The delivering the right message at the right time content marketing for a lot of people has been a case of like write a blog price ticket up there. So when you talk about timing how how exactly do you get content to the wrong people at the right time. It comes down to really understanding in the funnel. They gonna be interacting with this content. For instance, a lot of the time an article that kind of sits around, you know, they the consideration. Pat of of the final say, and it can also be used for the qualifying audiences. Well, just you know in the top of funnel as well. So it’s about how you understand web Ahah sitting at the funnel at the time. And I guess designing and considering that content to serve that peppis. Whether that’s you know, remarketing content to take away. Sorry, if you neutering these audiences in may be. If you look at their the consumer time line that customer that journey understanding what content United previously saying have they’re interacting, whether the, you know engaging with the content and then serving. Relevant content at the right time to to push them fed it down that funnel. So for instance, may be they’ve ridge your article. So you’ve qualified them as someone who throat. For instance. Let’s talk about Mendis him say ethical nutrients magnesium is that big hero ingredients. You’ve you’ve you’ve written an article about, you know, ten reasons why you might might be deficient in magnesium. Someone took the finals or we’re talking. Exactly. So it talking top of the funnel. Sorry, we’ve qualified that audience as someone who’s interested in magnesium ingredient. Pat says some kind of you know, using age site that they have. And then what we do is. You know, we really build out I guess sequential content from that the hats off to the pixel is fired on your web page. They read them at magnesium article, perhaps then you can add them to accustom audience, which re-target STAN would something to to push the middle fed it. So maybe you’ve you’ve established in aid. You know, if any magnesium in sorry, you can then target with maybe a bit more products related content. So, you know, about a magnesium, you know, for instance, ethical nutrients magnesium, which is by viable sorry. Is you get more bang about? And it’s really bad. You know, telling that story, then and selling, you know. Giving them that the that raise into the laze. Ties in beautifully with what you were saying about not leading with your product. So did you hear that final in? It’s three or four different phases. The actual product content doesn’t appear until you’re right down to that conversion end. And actually what age that’s when you making the sale. So. Yeah. And so it may be from that sequentially. Sorry. I they now know that United ethical Nate trans has really high quality medic magnesium product. And then to have they been, you know, a targeted something to push in the middle fed the down the funnel. So whether it said free trial sorry attend day free trial of a product or maybe it’s a bit of testimonial content. You know, why other papal United loud finance Webuye that magnesium are really breaking down all the different parts of that customer journey and that funnel delivering the right content at the right time sequentially to to really really push them through the funnel and down to conversion contested. Facebook times like the pixels and retargeting audiences there which make a lot of saints began. And that’s what as a marketer Facebook. So great at giving us is hostile tools that allow us to create finals in their ecosystem between Facebook and Instagram. I’m curious about some of the other platforms out there. Other other channels that you’ll find the moment that assigned to maybe Scola lesson lesson than win channels that you assigned to find a working for content marketing as well. Content marketing, I think there’s a lotta opportunity at the moment with with video content. So it’s something that way we looking with looking fair the towards, but definitely content series as well. Sorry, we’ve got GT bait Instagram Taytay bay, which was recently launched a last year, and that content that is is filmed in in portrait as relatives vertical contents.
15:01 – 20:00
Are I think definitely looking towards more the the mobile fist vertical content and being fish move. I think when it comes to new channels new formats, it’s it’s obviously look to benefit dang that. I move sorry. So definitely I think there’s a lotta open she unity as we move towards more mobile fist, full, Matt psych. For instance, story is like I j I thank God. There’s lots of opportunities to jump on board be a first fist movement really get that those may benefit. Because it’s new and exciting and the same time. Yeah. The platforms probably pushing it in the hope that it works in the same thing with Facebook live Facebook still trying to push live and imminence working. But you get that extra organic boasts that you would normally have got race you if you’re pushing older styles they’ve kind of betted into their advertising ecosystem he has commuted with struggle. So yeah, I think Facebook live Instagram’s stories Instagram TV, these are the kind of things that are relatively new. So it kind of makes sense to cause your attention on that as credit advice. Definitely I think trade inner a lot of the traditional brands is still haven’t really moved into that Vodacom viewing format opportunity sort of old school agencies is still filming with landscape cameras, and the don’t wanna change they ways for the new single genyk says don’t jenex doesn’t even knew isn’t. What are we up to now on you got a better idea than main may jenex? I’m jay. I think now what what’s after the millennials. We’ve got Nathan I remember that does it can be former off why is it X generation Y up to that? Whatever happens. We’ll be back to this generation before we know on again, he’s actually. Sorry. One of the goals for may with the podcast is to give super actionable tips and tricks from PayPal the eyesight, be strategies great. I mean, we wiped towards them. I’m wondering you says I am a trick. That you think someone could apply for content is fairly simple like apply today or tomorrow, and it might make a difference for that business. Once again, just going back to Louisville can you about the vertical viewing format, and how you said, you know, a lot of agencies I still filming in that in that very traditional landscape full Matt people United such as as founded in startups. They have a real opportunity to own that vertical viewing format ’cause you don’t need the big budgets for that. You know? And and you don’t it’s it’s very low fi lo fi and on the fly. I think really slow slide on the fly end on. I think it’s perfect. If you if you really really are in that space and really work on creating really engaging and real personable and authentic vertical content. That is definitely way too bay a lot more competitive against some of the big brands that had the bigger budgets, but on necessarily taking full advantage of the way that that content is moving and that is Boll life by an on the fly. I think. Is now more forgiving, if you’ll real if you’re honest, if you’ll lo fi and on the fly, do you think that consume a generally gives a little bit of sloppiness, you know, maybe a little bit camera movement a little bit out of focus a couple of homes in butts is here and there. Because that’s Dr absolutely well in the wake of old the data breaches in the political controversy, you know, with with the Cambridge scandals in and Facebook really moving towards his transparency. I think these shift has meant people more skeptical about marketing messages, and I think they the relevance of really authentic and real content that he’s in polished is is just so much more important right now. And I think uses a really really really trusting that within tick on polished approach to because it is a bridge will will most of the time. People listening this appropriate to be conducting some form of online comas or transaction. So it is virtual. So you don’t get that walk in get to make the Arna about you’re creating that real feel that maybe didn’t. So maybe the trick is to not try to act big not try to sort of polish everything up and pretend like you some great company. Of Europe company of one person. Maybe rather than writing all your FAQ’s with we or at our company, we like to think that and just be real and say, hey, it’s may I’m one person. This is what I do, and it might actually cut through a bit more. So. Yeah. I think Morgan ever, you know, we need unit as brands we need to be more real and authentic to to rebuild trust. Really? To be too big pod. So now, that’s great advice. I contend building trust olefin tizzy and yet go lo fi. And it probably actually becomes pathetic on the fantastic. Look. This is a hard question.
20:00 – 25:01
I NAR, but content marketing has a habit of nothing measured against results. It’s gonna well. We do because we think we have to everyone else does it. And then historically the one thing they ever measured measured. Social content was likes on curious to know, what are the kind of metrics that you pay attention to your content marketing, and when you want to measure success, I felt it really comes down to you know, how they talk about Elia creating content with purpose. Sorry, when creating content with creating content in mind, the right demographic to the right audience for the right channel but also for the right objective. Sorry, objective digitally. So a lot of the content that way is she’ll content. So we’ll already have in mind our Facebook advertising objective when. When we would building out that content. Whether that’s going to be an engagement pace or conversational pace, or or whether the whether you know, we we want to get sheds with a win. We want. These KP is for for objectives. And at the end of the funnel. Nice and easy. Right. We put a silo at the end or whatever the the ultimate conversion is that top end. You know, I think a win as his is about building that audience if we’re thinking of the content of final then the space is is reach in branding. But building that audience that means we can actually hit the next level of the final. I guess that’s the case objective Ryan, as we know engagement, drives extra Rachel in most of the social channels are those metrics that we previously pooh-poohed said likes. I’m really can’t well Gina what a like if a like this gives us a little bit more reach and the rates gives us more audience not audience can be retarded than we’re probably on the right track. If the objective here, you have in mind in you want engagement, you want likes you you wanna you wanna SATA conversational? You wanna start a conversation than the content that you create United Mesa lends itself lend itself to that in as debate compensate. Content. So we always design content with with our objective at digital objective in mind from found during them beginning content marketing is going to be one of the key things. I wanna do drunk my business forward how much of my budget Sherman. I guess it’s it could be any amount. But how much of my budget’s should be spent on making the content versus all the time spent making the content. I promoting it do do you have ratios or do you? Or is it really a horses for courses kind of thing? I felt you know, there’s no point creating an amazing piece of content. If you don’t have the distribution to allow actually they say enjoy. So I think you need probably more of a budget for they the advertising and distribution pace than the actual content. Nothing. That’s really good advice. If you build it, and no one sees it to even build it. Yeah. Exactly. So I mean, I think we’ve reached a stage now with with social that you kind of have to put money behind him. I think very few of us particularly brands have got the kind of swipe that says if we produce it’s gonna get covered. So I guess for almost everybody content that has to be a little bit of a marketing and advertising budget behind it to get it going get through that inertia. On the more. You can save on the content creation, especially if you can be doing that. We’ve you with your foreign oh with lo fi devices and really low production way with wants to, you know, producing similarly gauging content. I think the more money you have to actually take that as far as you can is probably better spent and there’s so many different tools on the internet. And you know, it you can create content these days as well. Sorry. I think if you can save money in the content creation by doing it yourself, then you can put extra budget into allowing people to actually say that content. He take those acute for the last question. I’m going to ask you what one of the some of the the tools and things that you will online resources that you use or you’d recommend to founders if they’re going to take the content marketing, and do it themselves other some tools that you’d recommend a they check out in. I think you can’t really look much further out than Facebook’s internal tools. Sorry at the moment. You had chills. You can cry instant experiences. You can you can create video is inside the Facebook advertising platform. So I really utilizing Facebook’s free racehorses in tools internally in that platform in a lot of it the time that that secret troll. Sorry, having a look in just jumping in and having a guy and making use of what Facebook is is giving us to pray is is the best way to do it to spend money on tools. These one night. They were winning jumps in and maybe fill that in afterwards. Yeah. Definitely. And you use show juuling will scheduling tools that to pushing out the content of the right time.
25:01 – 27:53
Or did you push everything up by itself? Manually at the time. It needs to go live. There tells us it I like to use the Facebook organic Phages, so I like to to posting platform I like to plan in platform, and I’ll see like to make use of that creative hub where you can create mock-ups for the different pieces of creative than unruly play around. But intensive Instagram, you know, wait, wait fought for ethical Nate trance way way loud. The whole idea of the design fade us Instagram is an intrinsically visual platform. So we like to design every single piece of content as a whole to be visually beautiful and as well presented as possible. So there’s a tool that I use code skid, social and that allows. Us to go to really great native of plan on that you can you can design bit to content. Say however thing’s gonna work stylistically an end visually. Sorry. That’s definitely a good one. And it’s one of the few that part’s straight to Instagram as well. So you can keep video content on further content through Instagram, and you don’t have to push to you mobile Laco. A lot of the other platforms are definitely skid. Social is the the one paid program that I do use. I’m not going to be lots of tools. I’m going to gain drive drive a manual car. I want to know that I’m doing it. Right. So that’s also so Kelly people a cane to kind of see your work in play. Then kind of see how you do your content other company social handles, oh your social handles that they could follow that would represent you’ll work absolutely site. Wave got in a health set in health probiotics which is at in a health AU, we’ve got ethical Nate trance, which is at ethical nutrients, and if you want some really cute dog content than definitely at Finley dot, FOX Finley with two ends as that is my my little little pomeranian, N taste door volt side. We all love wheel love cheat dogs. Visit in your pomeranian has reached the magical ten thousand Instagram. Follow isn’t means you can swipe up now or we used to working towards silhouette into what grad side. Any as I can get to help Finley on his dream to to ten ks. And so I welcome it. You’ll be you’ll be an influence on on Instagram before we know it and thanks so much Kelly. Look, I really appreciate your time. Your advice? I’m sure everyone’s got a lot of tips and tricks out of that everyone who’s headed, you know, your action call now is jumping and follow in light. And let’s get ten. Thanks a lot Kelly. I look forward to following your dog following your adventures and partly bumping into you around the Trump’s again soon. Thanks a lot of your time.

How to kick PR goals as a Startup with Michelle Winter

Just get my business listed in the newspaper.… but do you even want to be in the newspaper?

In this podcast episode, I chat with Michelle Winter about PR for Startups and cover a huge range of questions to help you understand the best ways to promote your Startup through public relations.

  • How should you hire someone to help you out with PR
  • What is the focus of the journalist?
  • What can you do as a founder to get your Startup listed in the press?

You’ll find the answer to these and other questions in the latest episode

If you’d like to work with Michell on your PR then please check out her website at Bango PR 
Michelle is an experienced media and communications professional supporting technology, scaleup and startup companies. Michelle has worked with early-stage clients to get their messaging fine-tuned and then helps her clients navigate the media.

If you’d like to subscribe to the Fractal Marketing Podcast you can do that via these links SpotifyStitcherGoogle Play or Apple iTunes


0:00 – 05:00
Just get my business listed in the newspaper. That’s the kind of break you might get. If you ran a sod up pay our agency in today’s episode again discuss do you really wanna be in the newspaper or the benefits of being listed? How do you do public relations had employed? Someone to help you out. What’s the focus of the journalist who you appealing to and what you can do as a setup founder to get those really crucial column inches dedicated yo business and not to be corporation. I’m Jerry Doyle. And this is the frankly podcast. And. Today. I’m excited to say that we’re joined by Michelle wintom, Michelle is an experienced media and communications professional who’s worked on national and global PR Counci cross technology property consume of fitness franchise. Brad’s you name it. She’s probably done it. But more importantly for us. Michelle weks with early stage is to get them messages. Fine tuned and help them really navigate the media landscape. So I’m super excited to have Michelle hit, Michelle. Welcome to the show. Having me not a problem at all. So I’m Cain to get straight in and talk about PR. And like, I guess with all of my guests. I want to understand what you think the difference is for somebody who’s a founder of a start up or a small company. How can they guess use PR or how can they leverage this size to get? I guess a competitive Ganj against be corporates out there. Because there’s always that fear is a found that you’re gonna be drowned by the big behemoth coporate who’s going to get all the media square inches of column inches if you like Jimmy advise and how they can I guess utilize themselves as a founder to get a game advantage. Yes. I shall I think that the NFL full restage businesses is that it doesn’t have to actually host anything. I don’t sound really expensive initial. He get a big PR agency onto a consenting way cost Arado money. But the brilliant thing. Pia is that you can do it yourself. If you understand how to what the what they’re media will be interested in Abaco business than you. There’s nothing to stop you from approaching than yourself on in to get some stories running gets a valuable media coverage for you. That’s interesting. I when you talk about doing it yourself. I often wonder. As a small business or generally speaking, are you better for preaching the media as a founder as yourself, or if you go viral PR agency does that make it look like you’re trying to be something you’re not or does that put more credentials or or is it depend on how you Kitching too. I think the keys to understand it. And that’s the benefit of being appeal is that you have that experience in understanding how to purchase mania in what they were locked. But if you understand that yourself, and you approach them, I think that you know, this new hobby doing that. I would I would definitely start off on the Lola end the to get some practice in some runs on the Bullock chest the lower in. What’s what’s the lower end? I would start with rate to now buy low are dominating in inferior. Maybe something industry publications and things like that Jemaine straight to. Straight to somewhere in national or global publication. Okay. No fair enough. If you’re gonna make a mistake making in the local newspaper. So you raise interesting point there. I guess the opportunity here is to say to engage with a PR professional enzymes, can you? And she just helped me scope my story. It’s less about maybe is more about sculpting, the story than is actually the pitching the pitching to the meteorologists could be done by the founder. But I guess the talent that you bring is the story creation. Right. Yeah. And just understanding what the Nadya will actually be interested in acting. But that comes down to is really taking the time to understand what they each different publications audience will be interested in and. Yeah. So it’s just kind of side. That’s probably the most important part, isn’t it? So let’s just take a typical founder, right? So a found what used to be a news story was Stott up in Sydney raises half a million dollars. And that was the headline now that doesn’t cut it. So what do you have to do to? If you want to even if you’re talking about sod press likes tot up daily or something like that. What do you have? To do. What’s is there a process that you follow to help the found to find this story? Yes. Shocking way. Take it granted, we do it every day. But I think to to take down to to basics just understanding what each different Hubbard patients audience will be. So it may vary in that way comes a little bit tricky.
05:01 – 10:07
So. What is of interest? Is that what is of interest? I guess the journalists themselves that necessarily have to be interested. It’s about their audience. Isn’t it? Summary. What we do we Ellie stage. Companies is workshops on finding you’ll goal. That’s what we refer. We finding. What’s what’s of interest to me are and one of the like what what made you are going to be interested in. Yeah. I think he mentioned area was raising capital and a launch or a national Lynch away. If you I’m standing. Any new key highs that you maybe making from raising capital. I’m in any innovation night. Any media’s always going to be interested in innovation. So what’s your company doing differently? That hasn’t been seen before. Starting with that. And then any kind of key human interest pieces to Yoel companies story is always going at from fl- flavor. If you will. The human interest if you can get the human interest. I nailed that’s what you thought to get the mainstream national press or international. Yeah. You’ll notice it. Now when you see the images, the image that you provided is gonna be really really important. So if he put a strong image. Than that help human saw keeping another chance of running as well, doesn’t example with atlassian, actually that I can get popped up last year in the press in Toronto changed my perception of it lasting to the bed are not that I had a bad. Still only about every atlassian smidgen. Do you? Remember, the story about the squeaking chicken, the squeaky is this the meeting room one? And you know, I’ve actually seen requoted through Lanc business press about you know, how many do meetings back that probably costs. Ten dollars for mitt from it, you know. You know? So maybe they street businessmen. They ten dollar Rupp chickens from dollar show. Kindles leaking chicken has been so much Fred, and you just can’t count by that. Which is what makes it? So now is it that gave the impression so that will last me forever misleading, but it made need that. What is more voted about us squeaking again in the meeting room with the I now see that culture is approachable ended the culture is, you know, they try to think than not above the open to those sunsets ideas like energised? Deserves condoms lab, you know, bits of goal within your business that saw a bit quirky of indifferent. That would definitely help get you some PR coverage as well. But having got going through your day looking to those kinds of opportunities of what makes you different. And will definitely help to try to find your pure gold. If you talking to mention that’s very proactive in the sense that you’re, you know, either you all the company themselves have found is trying to find that thing that they can pitch author and get some get some coverage. I’m curious, I guess in my mind, I think about proactive and reactive PR. So the other side is to be reactive instead of when something’s potentially hot in the media like Topi fits, you know, hot right, now, whatever it happens to be. Is there any advice, you can give to a founder of how they own how they should approach meteor if they think they’ve got a trending story. And it’s reactive. I’m trying to think of an example. But me, and when something pops up in the in the news other techniques to to apply because you you’re gonna be outreaching to press unimagined it. So journalists a dimension. It’s time sensitive Trina. Trina is going to be your best friend as a founder, creating you know, Kissel rookies heavy hitch widow, the oil company that will say for yourself like people want to interact with people at, sir. I think if anything like that general live on Twitter, so more often than not the Email that contact Email will be in that Twitter by so you can eat flick them in Email. It says stories get out about something that you’re actually innocent in in stores or avid, you could then take the opportunity to either Email that generalists by finding the mail without all even sending them a day, yet professions still treat it like Email and just letting them know that, you know, hey, so his story. And if you ever looking for another expert to provide comment inside of this would love to help out all on them or something like that.
10:07 – 15:11
So just getting on there, right? Not trying to give them a comment, right then. But just flagging in letting them Dr you’ll also amenable. I like the idea of using Twitter, but like it performs two purposes, it’s like the old formulas why that would have been watching the see what the stories were. That’s now twitch, and Secondly, it gives you a direct to speak to a journalist and get something done. Absolutely. Sorry insane. We twitter. I would follow any in the publications that are relevant flannel industry and men the jobless and just keep track of what wanna give out wasn’t covering industry in China said, even if it’s ten minutes a day on a thing. Just checking in on what what they interested in what they write about getting to know that I and then a protein them in, you know, either with your own stories, oh sunny that might be interested in to comment. I guess that’s that’s a big part of it. You know, it’s a running that press. Release in your experience with fans are they is it worth putting effort into creating a press release? Or would you recommend that founders? I like pitching just the headline or the whole of the tidbit of information. They have got anything at a then actually go ahead and Ryan something or journalists will appreciate the formerly written press releases has, you know, we’ve got something. Or is it depends again on whether it’s reactive or proactive its old reactors setting just sending their record little bit of an infectious instruction. They they should be able to tell. Key information from you’ll Twitter all of what your company’s about should be able to make that in action. And I think in announced to the press release civically win startups in early stage companies process of actually writing a press release is invaluable and not necessarily for coaching media doing a campaign for it. But that more often than not compared to big brands messaging is in hundred percent locks down yet. And so the process of writing press releases having someone. Who’s experienced not Dwayne come in off the questions that they might be to to to realize is missing from that key messaging enormous talking now, I mean, the whole marketing pays like they may not have had the chance to work with someone like yourself yet Surrey. Yeah. Doing that process will really kind of down getting that message clear, and it needs to be United being that’s one of the misconceptions about PR dealing media’s. They don’t wanna heal your job in a we buzzwords you need to ride it like, my tenure ability could understand why ten-year-old dole doesn’t understand what you do in your press release over a what the key messages that makes you go. So the voice I’m hearing Mary’s is a founder and a lot of fan that it startup companies had technical found early. If on technical demand expert expecting their particular vertical domain is maybe just released a little bit of the preciousness about being a hundred percent, correct. And let the journalist the PR person or even yourself find the real story. That’s actually interesting in understandable. And maybe put the academic hat Assad for a little bit and get the get the pay are in the mileage you’re gonna get to grow your business. And maybe just check the technical jogging and a little bit the dole before you stop. What? Absolutely. And I think if if there’s going to be any type rain action attack today for families is to get your kid pitch. Rod he explaining one-sentence, if you’ll elevator pitch is not if my my tenure doesn’t understand what it is that you’ll company does it then as a whole because the the other thing is flapping clients and getting slaughtered at going to press in what they realize in spotting a press releases at it may actually sound that exciting the language used is not tackled language, but we need to he needed Kate with a journalist just likely would really plain English GMI Doda. I like the using your daughter as a reference point because I actually have a ten year old daughter. So I feel like I’ve already got a PR lesson in west. So I’m gonna run everything by national pasta. The ten year old daughter test. It’s it’s what we not vigilant because she doesn’t get it. Then. Beheld being received four hundred eighty dollars. Plus a day they need to be outwitted really quickly comprehend. What it is that you say, and we’ll have to lay off our chemical inflammation in. It’s the same wave that he can read an article in folly, you will still be whilst it’s about some complex businesses than you know, it’s still written in playing wish tonight.
15:12 – 20:03
Unless it’s an article about buzzwords in which fight. You’re you’re free to do it. So I’m curious to NAR and everyone’s got this. But what’s the biggest misconception around payout? Public relations that you find the moment that, you know, particularly sought a fan, but any business earn a has around public relations. Still, but it can be guaranteed. Not. It’s more of that. Right. It’s. I mean at Bangor in particular, we guarantee our days. So that end what? But that doesn’t mean we guarantee particular coverage we gotta pay that whatever you invested in securities. We will keep going even if the campaign Hawkin full slot will keep going until you receive that say what equal appetizing dollas in place. Lasota EMS is an stand every chance. So we wanted to retake that seriously. Do you think the media landscapes change much? I mean, I remember I was talking to someone recently. And I said it said, look, you know. Go back before I was really reading the newspaper. And yes, if you go nautical newspaper, people would read it in contact you. I kinda feel as dies you get something in the newspaper you getting in there to say that you’re in there. But actually, not many people read it anymore is that is that the case or is that just my really jaded and digitally biased perception of the media. It certainly very competitive for audiences in people consume me content in crazy spades. I think we’re talking specifically foil early stage companies I think the benefit is having that first page on Google just really solid. So that if you set your company’s name, while the found his name something that that I cage you basically are in old through. Media coverage because if you’ll guide to raise money, you’ll you’ll have, you know, clients wanting to bet you enter research, you check that you’ll credible every everyone’s gonna gig Lifa, sir. Having whatever left I do. But whatever that says about is gonna make a big difference in God’s credibility in having a medium venue is an amazing the potty interests fishy are there with a lot of conversion rate. Optimizing professionals. I often say where have you been face to face it? And if you can put news outlet logos on your website. That’s kind of proof point that consumers can have in saying that you’re probably trustworthy brands. That’s almost like going back to the old as seen on TV thing. I mean in some respects, that’s what you’re blind with PR is the as seen on TV badge. Yeah. I try to explain to startups when we’re just having chances at night, even if we get whole page of Google hooked up with all this media coverage that doesn’t mean necessarily that you’re going to have a lease idols all of a sudden, it doesn’t necessarily work that. But it doesn’t mean that it’s not allowing it can happen like that to show. But it all depends on you know, I’d like to I’d like to think is probably gonna drive styles by think is going to help convert the person who’s on the fence, and they can do that second such third. So and they go Jim what these guys, oh, this company has been around for a while. We can probably trust them. All right. Here’s my credit card number make a purchase. So if someone is looking to get some help on Paige, what do you think what is some of the questions they can ask because I mean, you know, you’ve got to go to Google maps and type in public relations or PR. And you know, there’s is it’s a very fragmented industry. Right. I mean, you know, more than Maeve at, you know, there are a lot of independent a public relations specialists out that so what are the kind of questions that someone should ask of a potential public relations consultant affirm that you think helps cut through to see whether they’re going to be the right fit or the right for us thought up. All right for you. If it would mean, I would be asking firstly what crimes that they worked with and separately have a measure that success, and what they should be saying to your mind Pinon is. What does success may to you? Because success means different dance to all different kinds of company. So what might be what might name successful up to utilize startup may be totally irrelevant for number one. So I would be like a star having been understand you’ll commercial objectives. Wrought, sir. I found with Martin bay. I’m just wanna be in my local curry mile piper. Because I want that proof point to local market. But it might also bay whatever it costs I need being tech crunch because I’m going to go to the US and do a major funding round on I need to being tech crunch.
20:03 – 25:03
Because without that, we never gonna get anything special. A different of having mad focus on what is yet to be successful repeal. It is definitely the most important. And then of course, whether they can live with oh from testing. So how do you see PR changing over the next few minutes change to lock in the last five ten years? But how do you think it’s going to change in the next couple of years, or is it going to change at all? Will change. It’s changed a lot since I started here. Oh, don’t worry about the people sought to continue that Google always go. I started doing such engine marketing before Google was was thing. Google didn’t exist, and you says he people’s horrified looks like there was a world before Google. Never know why not off-key. But yes it yet. It has definitely changed. A lot lost ten years. The last two years is probably the the right changes slide down a little bit. But it’s still definitely changing pretty quickly. Trying to keep up with the right in rich content is made it consumes. So it’s more important now than ever to keep your whatever you have Halloween. Communicate generous when you’ll pitching to them having that is simple end easy for them to then do the job is by supportive because they’re dead. Vice if so much more content in articles to be putting Asir the easier you can make they allies the better like don’t pitch to them end. Then that actually come back and big Yuri and ask full something to do with that. And then he died get back to them within the day of the in all it’d be getting back to within ten minutes like as quickest. Otherwise, it’s lot hasn’t. I mean, like, there’s no I mean, it’s a bit of a blood now society, but the foam of investigative journalism where you might spend a couple of days looking into something that’s gone now. Isn’t it sorry as as the source of the of the press release the content? It’s guess I understand it to be it’s upon us. She create the bulk of the content and the journalists joked now is as much as being like a Sabathia as anything else. Yeah. I’m in. I mean, it’s different in different concepts publications that you can treated that way that you’re treating press release as a silver platter that they have everything they need to do the job if they’re interested in your story. I think I think it’s website that image is probably the thing that I see startups struggle with the most so making sure that your images at least one to two Neg big end in inhibitory Stalin in five minutes of googling appropriate media images is gonna help. But if it was a founder story them, I guess spending the money to actually get those preferably shots in in different types of profile. Scholz is is money will invest to drive. Yeah. The funny thing about that is my own one gets from. I think that as long as the elements either, right? It doesn’t necessarily you can take that kind of settle in your efforts. He doesn’t necessarily have to take, you know, really expensive Florida’s that. If if this summer on your website or something like that I can provide some samples that you could gives you we’ll do off their yum. When they episode goes live. I’ll put be a post page for it. So I will definitely with wrote some examples in there. I mean, I I recently painfully went and caught my profile photos hiking again here in Brisbane. And I did that because I was sitting talking to somebody who’s just frustrating ’cause went to go meet them it fighter on lengthy in looked at the fight and win. You don’t look anything like that. Doc, you you’ve aged an awful lot in the time. It took you to walk through this meeting. So I thought to myself hang on, Jerry. Do you go to this as well? So I get the photo updated. Even though you don’t look as good as you did five years ago. Get a new fatter taken Cy. Hyphen further came about is because awesome said I’d be holding onto the same photo for five years. So. I was just gonna ask one really specific question one site that I found and other federal audit from PayPal is soul. Spot will how have you found if you use source portal or their equivalent type services, and are there any tapes, you’ve got be using a website like so you probably have also need to explain what souls police as well. But if you’ve been tips for how to respond to so spot will I guess inquiries butter. Sputter is great resource. You just saw him up. Just like the joining a newsletter and any skin that they send Email less day on a thing in journalists kin put on Email different opportunities king full an expert in. I don’t envy. So if that’s just jump on it straightaway.
25:03 – 28:44
And then let them neither your age and makes me heavily contacting tells them make sure that your Email signature is oh. Oh to about spate of response. And I guess proving that you’ve got some or your your valid to be a source of information Bijan is you have to write your full blow in response to you. I regain thickness over any heat with that. Well, because let’s keep received an Email era Piaget in the country will be sitting that to job opportunities jump click. It’s all spoil. The is the later isn’t the only one other other websites similar to Seoul’s bottler? Isn’t it? Just I focused on that one. We assigned back to cellphone. Oh, we we on any others. Doesn’t mean. I’d probably just especially if he’s trying to go internationally. I guess fantastic. So lost question for me. Imagine the scenario way you’ve gone like oh cafe to Mehta young founder who said, you know, I’ll buy your coffee for your advice. And and you wanna leave her with a great tip. You throw at the really liked this person. I want to give a one hit that if she goes away in the next vice it will make a difference to a business. So my question to you is what would that one bay that you would give this found us that when she lades if she does it. There’s gonna be some kind noticeable difference to the presence of her company in the media back to the pitch again having that nearly solid. Emily clear. It’s going to be all secret weapon because it it works. Hold concepts. And so I would get that really really clear. I would all, sir. Father to that say having having a pitched whether it’s to Neo with us people that focuses all are what the pain point is that the NBC would be ceiling if you can make you can appeal to that that is what people take notice all of in in media stories like that’s what’s going to be of interest in who might people stuck in this skinning will differently. Let his neck get different press. Nine will die. It will pick up on something that the hustle feel inflicted by. And I think. The rate is up. What’s in it? For me. What am I going to get out of this? That I didn’t care about us. They don’t care about our business what we’re trying to achieve. And it’s like what what’s in it for me. What can I get out of this? That’s it was brilliant. Well, thank you so much time. Now, if people wanted to get in contact with you because I liked what you’ve said in a nice tangled. What’s the best way to rate your to find you run off air and Michigan’s M I S H undesirable window, and in also upside at Bengals yada, home dot AU, and is an Email inquiry phone there, and I am always on my Email. I’m never far away brilliant and you’ll you’ll based in Sydney. It’s been as well. So we go back and forth. Every couple of weeks. Normally around firm test, a bright will thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for the advise a hype everyone’s got a couple of tips. There are really really liked the idea of using a PR to work on your story and get your pitching right in that she doing the legwork yourself. I think that’s a really nice compromise. To find Robin sort of saying I want to outsource my PR. You take care of everything. Can I’ll go away actually just get coach from the sideline, and maybe do a lot of the lifting himself, and that might be the compromise per fan is on a tight budget brilliant. Thank you so much time. Thank you.