Do you sell out of sizes too quickly?

In this blog, I am going to talk about how you can learn the tricks of savvy eCommerce stores, and get some tricks for size analysis and how to determine the life of a product.

I love to shop. It’s in my DNA, I like the frill of the chase. The feeling of getting a bargain, the feeling of winning, of saving money, or of getting something unique. I like to abandon my cart with new eCommerce websites that I find, to see if they retarget me & offer me a discount to make my purchase. Another thing I enjoy is predicting when something will go on sale. My strategy for this is to review the availability of sizes, then to check if there is an abundance of the same thing in the rest of the market. I’m usually pretty good at determining if it’s going to go on sale or not, I am also freakishly patient at shopping, so will happily wait. I have been known to wait for 12 months for a product to drop to my price range. My favourite stores are the ones that can beat me on my strategy. The ones that have managed to balance their risky fashion purchases vs. their core everyday purchases. The ones that I know I will have to buy at full price because I can tell that the products they have brought will sell out in 1 day, 1 week, 1 month; whatever the life of product they have decided. That smart buying makes it tough for me. But it also drives demand, and for me, respect. In order to keep these savvy shoppers, you need to understand the life of products that you stock. Is a product going to last the test of a trend? Is a trend going to be done in a month, or is it more sustainable? You need to know how to pick it. Sites like WGSN, Refinery29, High Snobiety are great for inspiration & details on trend.

As a professional working in inventory management the number one complaints that I hear, is that my clients are selling out of certain sizes too quickly, and they are left with broken inventory or random sizes. As a former Merchandise Planner, Buyer and Merchandiser, key to my success were optimizing the size curve for the buyer. You’ll never get this 100% accurate, as you don’t have a crystal ball. But you can get this to around 90 – 95% accuracy by using historical data & learning when and why to look at the data at these points.

My first tip is to look at the history of a product at around 60 – 70% sell through. Look for the balance by size in the sell-through; i.e. are they all at a similar sell-through rate? If the answer is no – read on. If you have an average rate of 70% sell through, but you have some sizes at 40% i.e. too low, or some sizes at 90%+ i.e. too high.

Look at the below example of the buy:

All sizes were bought quite flat; assuming that they would sell at the same rate.

But as you can see; in this case, Large was the key size, but was only the second highest buy-in units.

So the sales rate of sale differed to the buy curve, you can also see that the liquidation or sell through varied by size:

The large size picked up sales of nearly 10% more than the buy, therefore this will sell out much faster than the other sizes & eventually lead to broken inventory and disappointed customers.

I would, therefore, review these factors – Liquidation and the actual sales curve to get the below buy curve for future buys:

I calculated this =((Ordered Stock * % Sales)*Liq %), I would then look at this and decide if I was happy with such a heavy weighting in favour of the size large, and what this would mean for units ordered. I would also review other factors historically, such as colour. Darker base colours might be preferable in larger sizes, whereas lighter colour bases could be preferable in smaller sizes. Data is your friend when making these choices or decisions. Also reviewing promotions that you had during any of the sales periods, that could have falsified data, or if you sell via multiple channels such as Amazon, Shopify and a Bricks & Mortar store, were any of them over or understocked. Factors to the sales are your friend when making decisions.

You need to have a good look at multiple SKUs or styles to make the call. Eventually, you’ll be able to rely more on gut feel, combined with sales history to make an informed decision. It’s also not a bad thing to seek outside help in making decisions on inventory. Remember that people make complete careers out of inventory management.  Speaking of which; I now run a Retail Consulting business, I specialize in Inventory Management and OTB – or Open to Buy maximization. Helping businesses to get the most out of their stock to maximize sales.

This Post was written buy Zoey Hopkins, you can find Zoey’s site and contact details here

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Ep5: Influencer Marketing and resetting pricing expectations

In this episode, I discuss influencer marketing, where to start, why it works and the different types of influencers.

I also cover ways to measure your influencer marketing results.

I then discuss a potential way an ISP can re-frame their pricing model so that consumers can better understand and value the service. I leave you with a simple, yet power tip that will differentiate you on social media.


During the Episode, I talk about the different stages of a buying funnel and how we’d attach different metrics to each stage.

The image below summarises that discussion

ways to measure influencer marketing

Ep4: How do you decide what to charge clients for a services-based company ?

In this episode, I look at the BANT framework by IBM as a way to think about pricing your service, we discuss focusing on value and not falling into the trap of cost-plus pricing. I run through an adapted version of Peter Laurie’s pricing model strategy, and finally, I talk up the benefits of project-based pricing.
In the second half of the episode I cover the classic ‘adoption of innovation’ curve, Simon Sinek’s ‘why’ and a little time is spent on creating great copy.
I finish the episode talking about the false economy of not accepting Amex cards.

If you’re an Apple user then you can subscribe to the podcast here Apple iTunes Podcasts

If you’re on Android then you can find us on Stitcher here

If neither of these work then you can just use Sticher through your browser

and remember, if you do have any questions you’d like me to answer on the show please just leave them in the comments here

Podcast Episode #3 is live and ready for your ears

In episode #3, we discuss the difficulties in building a double-sided business model and a trick that’ll give you a fighting chance. We then look at how to hire your first marketing employee for your startup and finally, we discuss shoe brand AllBirds who are nailing their copy, humour and brand positioning right now.

Please remember to subscribe and if you have any questions you’d like answered please ask them on Linkedin here

You can find an automated* transcription of the episode below:

So welcome to episode three of The Fractal Marketing Podcast. In today’s episode, we’re going to talk about double sided or two-sided marketplaces and how to tackle them with your start-up business. We’re then going to talk about what it’s like to hire your first marketing person and what to look for and what you need to provide them and probably more important than anything else how you’re going to measure the success. And then finally I’m going to have a quick look at a new shoe brand that I’ve completely fallen in love with. So the first question comes in from Scott Clark from who says, “The challenge my company has is that we’re trying to build up a two-sided marketplace and the issues we face are businesses are hesitant to sign up as our customer base is low and the customers won’t sign up because there isn’t a large number of businesses to offer things to them. Any tips on how to expedite the growth [and income?] would be grateful.”
Well, Scott, I mean, you’ve touched on probably one of those elements in a start-up business that I think is really common [laughter] and that’s people who try to tackle a two-sided marketplace. And the problem with the two-sided marketplace is that it’s such a desirable thing to try to achieve. If you get a two-sided marketplace working, if you can get an Uber, an Airbnb, eBay, if you get these things working, they’re huge businesses. The problem is, is that this huge business actually becomes really hard to achieve. So it’s like anything. It’s kind of like a long odds horse. It’s like 100 to 1 shot. If it comes in, great. You’ve got 100 times your money back. Chances are the 99 other times the horse runs it doesn’t win. And that’s what you’re tackling here. I’ve personally had a lot of experience with this and a lot of experience not getting it right. So I can talk about my experiences directly because my business that I founded had a very similar proposition. I was trying to reach small-business owners. I was trying to give them a proposition that would work and grow a business at the same time, a two-sided marketplace. So how do you do it?
Look, if you try to grow both sides of the equation, you’ve got a chicken and egg problem. Which came first? So you’re growing that business, and you’re going to struggle. The dilemma you’re facing is absolutely true and there really isn’t a quick fix if you try to grow the business in the organic way you imagine. The strategy I have really come to accept is the only way to really tackle a two-sided business model with any chance of success is actually to try to freeze one side of the model. So when you look at what you’re doing with the business you know where you want to end up. You want to end up with a marketplace where you’ve got buyers and sellers, businesses and customers on both sides of that equation, and they’re growing at the same rate. But we know that’s really difficult to do. So what you need to do is freeze one side. Now, what you’re basically achieving by freezing one side, and I’ll get to sort of how we do that in a little bit, but what you’re trying to do is say, “I’m going to focus all my effort on growing one side of the business.” Now, in practice, of course, if you just grew one side of the business, and if you just focused on consumers, they’re going to come to the business and realise there’s no offers. So to freeze one side of the business you actually have to fake it. I’ve got a half-written blog post on this where I call it, “You’ve got to Wizard of Oz it.” So this is where the wizard hides behind the curtains, and actually, it’s quite fake. What he actually puts forward isn’t the real deal. So how do you go about doing that? How do you freeze one side of your business model? Well, what you do is you basically need to populate– now, in your case where you’re trying to put offers out to consumers, the consumers are really your product, right? Your customer is going to be the business. Your customer is defined as the person who’s going to give you money, and the person who’s going to give you money ultimately is going to be the business. Now, to be able to charge people, you need a product, and the product is going to be the consumers. So when we try to think of which side of your two-sided business model, we want to freeze we want to freeze the business side, right, and grow the customer side. So what we’re going to do there is we’re basically going to fake the offers that are on your business to attract the customers.
So the way we go about doing that is instead of actually going to the businesses and trying to convince that they need to pay you and upload the deals, you actually need to go out and find the deals. You need to find sources of deals that you can collate, publish, and share to consumers that adds enough value that they’ll come to your service. At a point in the future where you’re growing your customer base, you can start to seed in behind the actual paid offers and the real offers. So what does that look like? In your example and looking at your business,, I would be looking at doing something– and this is a phrase we came up with with my business partner when doing Zippy, but the concept of chalkboard deals. These are the deals that small retailers put in their stores. So these aren’t the big sales. These aren’t the vouchers that you can email around. This is the chalkboard deal at the pub. So this is where you look, and they go, “Wednesday night, buy one parmi, get one free. Pints from $5. This is the happy hour.” So putting those chalkboard deals into a place where people are able to find them. This is assuming a whole lot of other parts of the business are working, but what you’re trying to provide is the content that people will ultimately seek.
If the business proposition that you’ve got actually has a good chance of succeeding, then in theory, if you put all that content out there people will use it, and you’ll be able to sell them. Now, what we’re going to discover by doing this is if people aren’t actually interested in what you’re sending through, like if they’re not interested in the offers you put up there without charging, well, you know that the business model actually isn’t going to work, which is a good thing, right? We haven’t gone too far in. We’ve only sort of spent half the money would have building one-half of the business model. On the other side, if you discover that people are using it, and you control that audience, the consumers, you can build up a critical mass. And whatever that happens to be– so I would highly, highly recommend that you just focus on one city. I live in Brisbane. Brisbane’s a great city because Brisbane is effectively 10% of the Australian consuming population. So whatever you do in Brisbane you can 10X when you expand from there. But you’re based in Sydney, Sydney being the biggest city, so you’ve got good concentration and a good population to go after. So I would just focus on that one area. Even if you can break it down into a suburb, break it down to an area. If you can get that critical mass, and you can get it, then you can realise you can replicate this model. So what we’re doing there is we’re nicehing down geographically. So we’re not trying to do every chalkboard deal across all of Australia. In fact, we’re not even probably going to try to do every chalkboard deal just in Sydney. What we’re going to do is pick a little area that we can narrow down geographically so we can tightly control what we’re doing and then– be another smart way to approach it would be to actually niche, in particular, areas.
So I used the examples of pubs before. I mean, you could just do pub based chalk deals. Obviously, you could expand that into restaurants, and hairdressers, and all other retailers, but we know that pubs use chalkboards so this concept holds true. Because what you’re trying to do is prove your model in the smallest market possible so you get over that critical mass issue as quick as possible. You’re faking the deals by loading it in. Look, you can go to Airtasker and just pay people to walk around taking pictures of chalkboard deals for you, pay them a bounty for each one, shoot that off to a style Philipines contractor base that’ll be relatively cheap to process that information and push it out there. At least you’re going to be able to test whether your model works. All that being said, it is a really, really hard business to get working, but if you pull it off then you’re in a great place. So where do we end up? Ultimately, you’re trying to freeze one side of your two-sided business model. You’re trying to freeze the side where you’re going to make your money because you’ve got to build up your product. Your product is the other side. So the people who aren’t paying you or your product, so these would be the consumers walking around using your app and your website, you fake the business side of it because you know eventually you can get the consumers and you’ve got their eyeballs. When you control that audience that’s the audience you’re going to be able to monetize with the retailers and you can start charging them. What I would recommend if you get to that stage try to filter these offers in over the top. So do it a bit like, I don’t know, Google search engine listings. You’ve got your organic, your natural listings, the ones that Google says through no payment this is the best result I can serve up, and then put the paid ads on top of that, and that’s really what you’re going to ultimately get to and you’ll start to make money. And the goal would be for you that ultimately the bulk of your listings are controlled by the retailers and that a large slice of those are paying for premium positioning, but it’s going to take time to grow that up. So I hope that answers your question, Scott. Like I said, I’ve got a lot of experience in it. I didn’t necessarily get it right and you will not be the first or the last person to double side a business model that’s not able to get that equation exactly right. But hopefully, if you freeze one side it’s going to work for you. So the next question in comes from Ryan Stewart who’s the CEO and founder at [Capisce]. So Capisce is a semantic keyword indexing tool, natural language algorithm tool. It’s an amazing thing, but ultimately what it does and the way that I imagine it working is you know those net promoter scores, the NPS scores you get?  If you think about the second question that runs behind that, that’s where you ask why you gave the score. What Capisce does is help businesses actually understand why people then use that score. So it’s great that you’ve got an NPS average score of nine, but why did you get it, and that’s what these guys do. But getting to Ryan’s question, which is what should a B2B SaaS company be on the lookout for their first marketing hire? What’s the most appropriate way to measure the performance of that hire and what does the CEO need to provide that hire with everything she needs to succeed? Lots of questions there. I probably won’t tackle all of them in a great amount of detail just because I think we’ll be here for the full half hour just on those three questions. But, okay. So getting to the first part, what should a B2B SaaS company be on the lookout for their first marketing hire? Well, I actually am of the opinion that your first person you want probably isn’t a full-time hire. I think what you really want is contractors to start with and specialists, and probably the first person you want to hire is the seasoned professional, the consultant, the person who’s got 15, 20 years experience under their belt that’s seen a lot, they understand most of the different techniques, and more importantly, they’ve probably worked for a couple of startups, so they’re coming in hardened, they’re coming into your business with experience, and therefore you’ve got a good chance of not having to learn what’s happening. Now, you don’t want that person as a full-time hire. That person is going to be expensive. This person has worked for two or three startups that have actually succeeded. It’s going to cost you anything from 160 to $260,000, roughly speaking, to hire that person. Not the kind of money you really want to be spending as a start-up. What you do want is 5 to 10 hours a month from that person to put you in the right direction. The terms of actually the first marketing hire is that you want a generalist. You want somebody who has got a wide, broad skill set because this person is going to be expected to do a lot. You want them to work under the guidance of consultant, that senior person, to give them direction, but you want this person to have broad shoulders. So if you think about the way– you can visualise– and podcast is not a great medium for me to get you to visualise [laughter], but if you can imagine skill sets, [inaudible] within a traditional digital agency somebody’s skill set up to a certain seniority level is very narrow and very deep. So what I mean by that is– when I first started doing digital marketing I did SEO, and I had very deep knowledge. Like, that was all the experience I had. I hadn’t done any other marketing. I was doing a marketing degree, but that’s not experience. That’s just regurgitating information out of a textbook. You can tell I’m probably not a fan of marketing degrees. But that’s deep and it’s narrow knowledge and that’s not what you want as a start-up. What you want as a start-up is somebody who’s more wide at the shoulders, so at the top end. So if you imagine the deep, narrow person being kind of like a very skinny rectangle and that represents their skill set– so it’s very deep and it’s not too wide. You then have the Jack of all trades, and the Jack of all trades is that rectangle turned on its side, so very wide. Done a lot of different things but they don’t have great depth of knowledge. What you really want is somebody that’s shaped more like a triangle, so quite thin experience on the outsides of the breadth but they’ve got the breadth, they’ve seen some things. So they’ve been involved with small companies, so that means that person might not have done PR but they’ve seen [inaudible] PR. That person might not have done copyrighting but they’ve seen copyrighting or they’ve been involved in touching it. So they haven’t been locked away from different departments and different experiences, but they have been engaged in that, but they will have deep knowledge in some of the disciplines. Not as much as the complete expert in SEO, but that expert in SEO is going to be hired by the big companies and the big agencies who want the best person for a job. You don’t need that as a start-up. What you need is somebody who has a good depth of [inaudible] experience, and they’re not the best, but they can kind of move around. And the reason you want them to move around is because you’re going to need them to do multiple jobs, and you’re also going to change what you think is working for the marketing. So where do I get to with that in terms of skills? You probably want them to have a good knowledge of SEO. You’re definitely going to want them to have some page search experience. Probably the most important area is going to be their social skills, not just the organic, but also the way they do Facebook and paid advertising. So you want them to be strong across Facebook. You’re definitely going to want them to be across LinkedIn, especially if you’re talking in a B2B company. You’re going to want them to understand data. You’re going to want them to understand CRM systems. You’re going to want them to understand [inaudible] anything from Salesforce to Hotspot – probably a bunch of other tools – because they’re ultimately going to recommend what they prefer working with. And then you’re really going to want them to get content and retargeting. And I’ve covered that on previous podcasts, but content retargeting, B2B, and the [inaudible] is absolutely crucial. And if I was going to pick an area for them to be an expert in it’s going to be around content and retargeting, and that retargeting is probably going to be centred around social networks. So how do you measure the performance? Well, look, you’re a start-up business. You’re metrics aren’t locked in stone. We’re looking for incremental gains here, so we’re looking for soft KPIs, things that are going to lead us to– sort of give us a [inaudible] we’re going in the right direction. We’re looking to move closer towards break-even and profitable and scalable marketing [inaudible]  you’re not going to get there straight away. Definitely, if it’s your first hire, this person’s probably not going to be seeing you enough to carry you the entire way through. They’re going to need a lot of support, particularly from you as a founder and anyone else who’s involved with that product in sales, in engineering, in all the other elements of your business. But setting some KPIs, soft KPIs, that we’re pretty confident are going to be leading indicators to successful business outcomes, that’s probably going to be the best thing. I’d really focus on looking at your funnel, looking at the way you’ve got your business set up, so how you’re tracking from impressions the size of the audience, the definition, who you’re engaging with, and how that funnel’s building. And just all the way through, look at what the conversion rate through the steps are and just always set yourself a goal and take a real growth hack mentality, which is to say, “Let’s come up with an idea, a thesis to what we expect is going to happen, what success is going to look like, set a short timeframe, run something, test it, measure the results, and then iterate from that point.” So lots of those small tests. If you can set up the support framework– and I guess this is more your third question. If you can put the network around them, so the programmers, the product people, the salespeople, to support what they’re doing, and you all collaboratively work together to reduce each of the conversion points on that sales funnel, you’re probably going to get some success out of it. What you don’t want to be doing is leaving that person on their own and say, “Well, good luck. Do some [SEO?] and come back when it’s working.” That’s never going to work for you. So look, I’ve lightly touched on each of those things. I think the most important part is to get that triangle-shaped skillset. So broad, experience most things, but a couple of areas of in-depth knowledge. And try to make that in-depth knowledge for B to B around LinkedIn social content and retargeting. If you can focus on that, all the other experiences will be beneficial. I think you’ll be in a pretty good place.
So lastly on today’s podcast, I just wanted to talk about a shoe brand that I’ve come across in the last couple of weeks and completely fallen in love with. And I’ve fallen in love with it not just as a consumer of the product, but I’ve fallen in love with the way these guys have managed to launch a shoe brand. There are some industries that are just hard to crack. You don’t want to try to get into the flavoured sparkling water business up against Coke. You don’t necessarily want to try to launch a car, even an airline. There’s certain industries where it’s just hard work. And shoes is one of those industries. You don’t turn up in the shoe industry and just succeed. But this one company is just making incredible progress, and that company’s name is Allbirds. So that’s A-L-L-B-I-R-D-S. And I hadn’t heard of this company. I was put onto it by somebody in the coworking space who sat across to me and just said to me, “You’ve got to get these shoes. These are the most comfortable shoes.” And whenever you get those kind of product recommendations, you know that there’s a brand that’s onto something. This is where a brand’s gotten to that stage where they’re going viral. People are talking about it. They’ve got promoters. So this is if you knew what their net promoter score, I’m sure these guys are sitting at 9.5.
What what do I love about Allbirds? I think for me is that they seem to be really clear on their why. They’ve got a really clear mission. They’ve got a really strong brand personality, and they’re carrying that into an audience. So they’re really breaking into this young, young-of-mind. They’re probably tapping into the start-up industry. But also, they’ve got a very sort of left-leaning sort of environmentally friendly, sort of poke fun at themselves kind of style brand. And the area where I think they’ve just recently launched a new range, and I love the way they launched it on Twitter because it was almost like they had gone and paid the creative agency to do the photoshoot. And they’d done the classic shots, the classic photoshoots. And then they, to use a very Australian expression, sort of took the piss out of themselves, where they almost make fun of the models and their sort of solemn look and the way that they’re conducting themselves. And yet it’s their ad. So I can highly recommend having a look at the Allbirds Twitter account and just having a look at the copywriting. Take a look at their website. Take a look at some of their emails that they’re sending out. Whoever is doing the copywriting at Allbirds is an absolute genius. They’ve got their brand nailed. The copy is funny and witty. And if you read through the copy, at all points, you get a real idea that they’re still selling the features. They’re still selling the benefits of their shoes. They’re light. They’re environmentally considerate. They’ve got wool. They’ve got eucalyptus shoes. I mean, it’s a very unique proposition. It’s very different. And it’s not cheap. And you’ve got to ship it from– I think to Australia, I had to get mine from San Francisco. But they’re just this amazing thing.
And what’s great about them is when you see somebody else that has Allbirds, there’s a weird connection. So walking through sort of Brisbane City, and I just saw another person with Allbirds, and they recognized mine. And you’re in that I’m in a niche little club. We’re early adopters. We’ve got into this. We’re importing our shoes. Are they the best for walking around? Probably not. They’re kind of like– the woollen ones are kind of like Ugg boots. But there’s something about it. There’s something about the message, the brand, the positioning that makes you go, “I just believe in the company. I believe in the people behind it. There’s something that you’re doing that I just like and I align to that.” It’s not going to be for everybody. But have a look. Have a look at the way they’ve done their stock photography– not their stock photography. It’s all very much bespoke. But have a look at the way the photography is being done. It’s top quality, but at the same time, it’s just on-message, and they’re carving out a spot in the market just by being a little bit different. And I think it’s a good example of how getting something completely on-brand, understanding who your customer is, really being clear on what your brand personality is. What’s your voice? What’s your tone? What’s the image you want to portray? If you get it right, you can even break down an industry like the shoe industry, which is really hard to get after.
So take a look. I will add links to the two companies we have discussed today who put questions in, and of course, to Allbirds. Highly recommend checking out Allbirds. I am eyeing off the eucalyptus tree climbing shoes. I think that’s what I need for the Australian summer. But I’ll send that through. And as always, please shoot through questions at, and look forward to speaking to you all again next week
  • that means there are probably loads of errors

Lessons from a Coworking Space

A workplace is a delicate ecosystem where success and culture ebbs and flows with the provision of home-made cake and water cooler chat; even more so in a co-working space.

In a co-working space, you have the same shared bathroom experience, but with the added dynamic of varied companies, agendas and business cultures – all under one roof.

Today marks my final day in such a workspace- a final day, I hasten to add, that has only come about, because of my own logistical challenges (school drop-offs, family time etc) and not at all a result of the experience!

Reflecting on the past few months, here are some lessons learned that I thought I’d share with you*:

1) Headphones are the co-working space equivalent to an office door. If the headphones are on, the door is shut. You can still knock, but the barrier is up. Noteif your co-worker is wearing “cans” consider the door opaque.

2) Ask for help. Seriously, I have been amazed by how ready, willing, and able my co-working space “colleagues” offer up help, advice and support. If you have held back from such an environment because you thought different ventures under one roof would create competitive or guarded space, think again.

3) Introduce yourself. That dreaded moment where the teacher makes you stand up to ‘share a little bit about yourself’ is a recurring nightmare for many, but in a co-working space there’s no dedicated HR rep to walk you around on your first day for a meet and greet; so don’t expect the world to come to you. Say hello. Introduce yourself and enjoy the friendships that you make in an environment where like-minded people have gathered for their own adventure.

4) Introduce others. So while I agree introducing yourself can be a little hard; take a load off your co-working space buddy and make sure you introduce them to the other people you know. Double points if you can give a quick CV; and straight to top of the class if you can find a common area of discussion. This is grassroots networking.

5) Find the quiet achievers. They’re the ones who are head down, working away without anyone ever realising they invested in X, founded company Y or once worked on Z. While the squeaky wheel often gets the attention, not everyone is a natural self-promoter. You never know who is sitting next to you and what invaluable business acumen they actually possess.

6) Garner advice from the non-experts. This one sounds a little odd; but everyone has a story to tell and experience you can learn from. I’ve found that the collective experience of the co-working community is usually a good gauge of a general direction. Thinking about a double sided business model? By the time the seventh person winces, you start to get the idea it might be hard. Live and learn.

7) Pay it forward. Don’t ask what your co-working space can do for you, ask what you can do for your co-working space. But seriously, give first, it might not come back directly, it might not come back at all. But all the old adages come into play here; be nice to the people on your way up, cos you might meet them on your way down; be the co-worker you’d like to have at the desk beside you; and as I find- doing good feels good. A shared experience goes both ways.

8) You are the culture. From friendly colleagues to bounce ideas off; to the celebration of a professional milestone, the people around you make the culture of the place; and you are part of that. Don’t wait for someone to make it happen for you, you get out what you put in – even if you’re a total introvert. Join the morning teas; go for a coffee; chat on slack or leave notes for people. Or if you’re like me, join the Easter egg eating competition and go so hard you feel sick for the rest of the day – that’s just part of being a team player, right?

9) Make up the numbers. If someone is going to host an event, talk, lunch, anything. Don’t leave them talking to a room of three; If you can, go along and show your support. You’ll be helping out a colleague, sharing an experience and who knows you might just learn something! As with the note above, if someone is helping build the community, help them out.

10) Be respectful. You will make your mark, in one way or another, so make it in a positive way. As with roommates; group holidays and traditional office setting s- do your dishes and don’t stink up the office with tuna; keep the music in your headphones and your phone calls to a dull roar. Say good morning; and thank people when they help out. You might not be working for the same company, but you have the same goal= success and productivity in whatever form that happens to work for you. So do unto others and good luck to all.

* The lessons below depict the experiences of the author and may not reflect yours. The author’s personal attributes, both physical and personnel have probably impacted the experience and the results of the egg eating contest.

The Fractal Marketing Podcast – Episode 2 – Calculating CAC, tracking offlines sales and animated video advertising

Welcome to Episode #2 of the Fractal Startup marketing podcast.

In this episode, I discuss calculating the cost of your customers – thanks to for the question

We also cover the other common direct marketing variables and how to calculate them.

We then move onto more complicated offline and long sales cycle tracking  – thanks to BenchOn for the question

And finally, we look into the power of animation as a video medium – take a look at Big Fish &

If you would like to have your questions answered on the podcast, please add your question in the comments section here

If you’re an Apple user then you can subscribe to the podcast here Apple iTunes Podcasts

If you’re on Android then you can find us on Stitcher here

If neither of these work then you can just use Sticher through your browser

Below is a transcription of the podcast:


[music] Hi, and welcome to the Fractal Marketing Podcast. My name is  Gerard Doyle. And on this show, I take marketing questions from listeners to provide answers so that everybody who tunes in can learn a little bit more about marketing and hope they find some ideas for their business. [music] So in today’s episode, we’re going to look firstly at calculating the cost of acquisition of your customers and other marketing variables like ROI and ROAS and discuss the differences between those two. After that, we’re going to spend a bit of time talking about more complicated tracking models where it might require an offline sale or a long sale cycle and how to relate that marketing money that you’re spending very early on back to that end sale and the customer value. And finally, we’re going to spend some time looking at animation and the power of animation in video marketing and how we can deliver clarity of message through an uncluttered interface. So our first question this week comes from Cass from [inaudible]. And her question is, “How do you calculate the cost per acquisition if your primary acquisition method is profitable?” Good question, Cass. And I think it speaks to one of the problems with marketing is that and like all industries, I guess, is we have a tendency to create a lot of our own words, a lot of our own acronyms, initialisations, and things that just make marketing generally confusing when it need not be. I think back to some of the rules that people like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk employed in their companies. And they just started stopping people from coming up with new acronyms inside the company because it just made life really difficult. But we are where we are [laughter]. And to answer your question, look, it is still possible to have a cost of acquisition particularly even if you’re profitable because it’s only the cost of acquisition is only the denominator in the ROI calculation. So what I’m talking about there is if you’re looking at the ROI of your marketing, you’re looking at the cost of acquisition over the lifetime value of those customers. And that’s what you want to be profitable. But it’s still completely possible of course, and in most cases, you would have a cost of acquiring those customers. So when I look at that I think, “Okay, there’s some really important variables there that we need to understand completely to get your head around marketing.” So as an acquisition marketer, I live and die by these two numbers. And the first one is the CAC which is the cost of acquisition of your customers, so customer acquisition cost, CAC. This is probably one of the most important variables because it’s much easier to get your cost down with your marketing. It’s generally where a marketer is going to be measured. On the flip side, on the denominator side of this equation for the ROI, you’ve got the LTV, the lifetime value. Now, as a marketer, we can impact that. We can attract sort of better quality customers. In theory, they’ll give us a longer lifetime value. So this is the total amount of value or revenue we’re deriving from a customer who comes to our service or our product. So really though, generally speaking, that’s going to be a product manager. And that’s why when you think about growth marketing, a growth marketing or a growth hack team tends to involve both a marketer and a product lead as well as often a developer of the backend to help you. But that pigeon pair of a product marketer and an acquisition marketer is usually ideal. So that’s pretty much the most important thing as a performance marketer to really be measured by. And the reason is that that typically for a startup, or a new product, or a business is there’s an amazing moment. So this is after we have achieved product-market fit. We’ve found out customers. We’ve got 30, 50 happy customers or whatever we’ll define that to be. But what we don’t have yet is a really scaled marketing process and that’s because at the moment when we start, we’re probably spending $2 to get $1 back in. The amazing moment occurs when all of a sudden you can spend a $1 on your marketing and get a $1.10 back. And what that means is your CAC, your cost of customer acquisition, drops down below the cost of the lifetime value. And then what we’re looking at is, okay, what’s that payback period? Now, that ideally is instantaneous in the sense that you’re selling a product, so the revenue you get back from a product is greater than the cost of selling it. For a service-based business, this is a little bit harder. You might be looking at 2, 3, 6, 12 months payback windows, and that has a big impact on the value of our company, the cost of raising capital, etc., etc. But really these are probably two of the most important variables to understand with your marketing, and then the variables that a marketer should on a daily basis be looking at to see how their campaigns are performing. Now, I’ve also mentioned in there the ROI, probably one of the misused terms marketers do. I had a client about a year ago, in a meeting [laughter] who stood up and said, “If another person uses ROI instead of ROAS, I’m leaving the meeting.” And what he meant was ROI, return on investment is a very general [captural?] term, really refers to the whole business. This is whether the business is being profitable really. So I invest this much. Do I get more back? ROAS, on the other hand, stands for return on advertising spend, so ROAS. I told you it was a lot of initializations [laughter] and acronyms. And ROAS is usually the measure of what the market is doing, so this is where you say how much revenue am I getting? So I might be, for example, selling a couch. That couch might sell for $2,000. The actual profit on that might be 500, but I’ve also got other costs as well, be it staff or it could be facilities, accountants, general sort of management overheads. And all of these variables don’t really appear to your typical marketer.
As a marketer, I might be doing Facebook marketing. I’ve got no idea what the overheads of the company are. I also don’t know where the other investments have gone, so what I’m calculating is the ROAS. So that’s the total value of the sales, particularly if it’s e-commerce, then I know I can get that back. I know I’ve sold $2,000 worth of goods. However, I might also know that I’ve spent $500 to get it, but typically that ratio’s going to be much higher in needs, be much higher in ROAS because it doesn’t take into consideration all the other cost of the business, so you’ll have a client or it could be your business, and you can still have a ROAS goal. It’s just that rather than it being $1 and $1.10 back, it’s more likely to be $1 in and $10 back, so hope that clears it up. If nothing else, there’s a few new acronyms in there for you to learn. CAC, customer acquisition costs. LTV, lifetime value of those customers. Knowing that is absolutely important. Again, working with the project manager, working increasing that value, makes a marketer’s life much easier. Obviously, if that lifetime value goes up, you’re able to spend a bit more on marketing. And secondly, looking at ROI, return on the investment and how that differs from the ROAS which is return on advertising spend. Absolutely crucial that you get that right. There’s nothing worse than presenting to a client, or a manager, or a boss, or shareholders and getting those two numbers wrong because you just end up looking a bit foolish with your campaigns. The second question today comes from Tim from [inaudible]. And Tim asks, “How do you manage the ROI on marketing spend when the signup decision is not impulse driven but rather a slow burn that takes time to filter through the client’s bureaucracy? I justify it now by calling it brand awareness, but there has to be a better way to make data-driven marketing decisions. Great question, Tim. It’s strange more and more this is the sort of the area of questions I’m discovering as I talk to business owners. And that’s because the two biggest marketing engines available at the moment particularly online but even generally across the whole world is Facebook and Google, and both of these tools are absolutely fantastic for measuring [inaudible] online. They are able to track someone through the whole purchase, but when that sales cycle is a bit more complicated, when there is more involved, it becomes really hard. So to answer your question, look, it’s not easy and it’s kind of the point where marketing consultants step in and really help set a framework for your business. But I’m going to break it into two broad approaches for you, the first one is around post-impression platform tracking and the second is using correlations of indicating variables which is a little bit softer. So I’ll cover the first one which is post-impression tracking first for you because that’s the one I prefer to get to. So what I’m talking about here is normally in marketing campaigns and acquisition campaigns, what we’d like to measure from is a click. A click is that magical moment when you know that someone’s definitely engaged in your ad or your content and come through to your website. At that point, you are able to use whatever tools you’d like to track somebody through to an end purchase and ideally, that purchase happens in the same session but it might happen two or three sessions later, but it makes it quite easy to calculate. If that window is short enough, usually a few days, you’re in a pretty good place. Now what happens is, more and more the way we engage with media isn’t see an ad, click on an ad, make a purchase. So originally ad technology was all based around cookies and cookies were great. Cookies run this ability to [drop user?] a one by one pixel to drop a little text file on a computer or users computer and then if that person came back we could read the browser, recognize that our cookie was there, identify who the person was and go, “Ah. They were the person who clicked on the campaign a while ago.” Now what’s happened over time is that the actual cookie tracking technology has become less and less robust, lots of people are blocking it, but more than that and I think probably a bigger impact has actually been the use of dual devices. People have not only their home computer, but they have their mobile phone, their tablet, and their work computer. So often people are interacting with content at work, going home, sitting on the couch and then purchasing through an iPad. All that means for us is it’s much harder to track and this is where the platform tracking tends to be the easiest for most businesses. Now there are more robust tracking solutions out there but at that level, you’re normally spending enough money that you’ve hired a full-time agency to deliver them for you. So what you do if you are an owner-operator in a small business and you want to achieve this? You ultimately have to leave your marketing in a platform channel. So I’ll talk about– so Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google. And what you’re doing there is you’re looking at post-impression sales. So post-impression means somebody who has seen an ad and then goes through and makes a purchase. So this is kind of the next easiest level to track. There’s a big difference there. The intent isn’t clear. If I run a Facebook ad and somebody clicks on that ad and comes through to my website and makes a purchase, I’m pretty confident my ad drove the sale. On the other hand, if I show my ad to somebody who it appears in their Facebook feed, they don’t click on it but then they go through and make a purchase. Well, did that ad drive the purchase? What impact did that ad have? It’s not as clear but the great thing is that the person doesn’t actually have to have an interaction. Because you’re on Facebook, you can be on your work computer looking at Facebook, you see an ad on your work computer, Facebook knows who you are, you go home, log back into your tablet. Facebook still knows that that tablet belongs to you; you are the same person. So if you then go through and make a purchase or sign up or do whatever action we want for your business, Facebook is able to identify that and say, “Ah. I know, even though you’re on a different device on a different network in a different location, you are the same person because this is the same Facebook account.” So what we’ve been able to do there is achieve two things by using Facebook post-impression tracking; one, we’ve been able to track between two different devices and two, we’ve been able to track even though somebody didn’t click on an ad. Now Facebook also has some kind fantastic options in there like people who watch videos. It can be a fantastic tool to measure engagement and say, “Well, if somebody watches X percentage of a video, then they must be more inclined to have engaged.” That’s very different to an ad just sort of scrolling past somebody. Now, there’s no hard-and-fast rules. Ultimately, you have to define, as a business owner or a marketer, exactly what you’re comfortable with. But if you’re looking for a rule of thumb, usually, with Facebook, their default settings, I believe, are– post impression tracking is normally set at one day. So in other words, you need to perform some form of trackable action within a day of seeing an ad. Otherwise, we’re not going to attribute it. Whereas, post-click, we’re normally looking at anything from 7 to up to 30 days to say if you’ve clicked. That’s the kind of window we’re willing to consider attributing that person back. Now, attribution modelling is a whole other podcast, so I won’t get too far into that. But to get an idea of how you can measure these things. You can obviously extend that post impression, but it becomes harder and harder to actually decide what’s going to be working. So my advice to most small businesses is use each of the platforms, Twitter, Google, Facebook, whatever you happen to be using, LinkedIn, and do look at post impression as a way to see if your content or your ads are engaging people and they’re converting. If you want to get into attribution modelling, I’ll wait for another question on that. But probably the easiest way to do that is to have a look at what’s built into Google Analytics. Their solution’s actually quite good, and there’s some great models pre-built. So the second, I guess, answer to your question, and this is probably I think where you’re really coming from, is what about if we don’t really have that kind of control? What if I’m doing marketing that might be writing an article on a news site or newspapers or press or radio? All these kind of very normal things that you know are doing the right things for your business, and they’re building your brand as you say in your question. But is it really driving my business forward? Well, the sad, I guess, fact is we don’t know. And that can be tough for people to sort of, I guess, deal with as a business owner because you do want to know where my money goes– where all your marketing money goes.
We’ve kind of been spoiled as we’ve been moved into this digital marketing age where we got used to the idea that, “I know exactly what I’m getting back for my marketing money.” Well, we’ve kind of gone past that now, and we actually have to go a bit old school in the way we think about things. So by going old school, what I mean is going back to that point where– the famous quote that says, “I know that half of my marketing’s working. I just don’t know which half.” Well, this is where most large retail brands find themselves. So traditional advertising through TV, radio, press, PR, there is no direct line of ROI or [ROE S?] that someone’s able to calculate. You ultimately have to go with gut feel. And that’s why sort of the old-school marketers if you like, they’re still a talent out there that needs to be fostered and preserved. And I think, to a certain extent, that skill set’s being bred out of us by this digital age. And it’s only now that, for a lot of industries, the competition’s so tight that skill set’s coming back into its own. So what are we looking at here? Well, we can probably work at how we need to tackle this by thinking about the way that TV advertising has traditionally been measured and people have made their purchase decisions. And to get this right, you really need to go and understand who your profile of your target customer is, the persona, who you kind of imagine that person would be and spend some time looking at where they’re likely to be. Now, old-school TV, you typically use offline survey-based metrics, like it might be Roy Morgan surveys, build profiles, get an idea of where that person is and what kind of media consume and how they do it, which is great. But for the purposes of being a startup or a small business, that’s usually well outside the range of what you’re able to do. My suggestion is always to look at Facebook. Digital marketer [first?]. That’s where I’m going to go back. But the data that sits behind Facebook these days is absolutely amazing. If you’ve installed the Facebook insight Pixel onto your website, you can start to get an idea of who the people are, looking at their interests, their age, their demographic. You can look at the other kind of pages, the celebrities, the interests, the restaurants that they might like. This kind of data is available as marketers. So my tip there is definitely install the Facebook insight pixel, and you can get an idea what’s happening. Getting back to your question, when it actually comes to buying that media, when you’re doing a media planner for TV, you actually start looking at things like [inaudible] all the breaking points. And this is kind of like how many people are watching your show, but media’s purchased in TARPs. So this is target audience rating points. And what we’re talking about there is the media buyer who’s working to a plan for a marketer for a big client is actually are interested in how many people are watching your show who are actually their target customers. So what I mean by that is they don’t really value– there might be a million people watching your show, but if only a hundred thousand of those people are their potential customers, then they value the media by the hundred thousand, not the million that they’re actually seeing it. Why is that important? Because ultimately, the marketers have done their research on who their customer is. They’ve done their research on where they might be looking, what kind of consumer information, what media they’re consuming. And that’s where they place their ads. Now, there’s a lot of [inaudible] behind that. You really have to follow your instincts and see what’s happening. That in itself is probably going to be [laughter] hard for you just to reconcile with yourself. So the trick at this point is to start putting soft KPRIs in, leading indicators in that we start to draw correlations between end business outcomes. Now, go back a few years. And generating likes on Facebook was seen as being very much like a vanity metric. However, where it really resonated and why it took off with businesses and why they built up Facebook audiences is it’s a general recognition that people who interact with your brand, people that see that, it’s a leading indicator. So it is possible to say that the number of fans on a Facebook page is in some way correlated to the size of that business or the audience or potential size of that business anyway. That’s one variable, and it’s a bit of a weak one because it’s kind of being bastardised by people sort of buying likes and becoming fixated on how many people are liking their Facebook page. But we can look at other elements like what’s the total number of minutes or hours our videos are being consumed on YouTube or Facebook or any other media? What’s the total number of clicks we’re getting, the number of impressions we’re seeing, the brand mentioned? These are all indicators that say what we’re doing is going the right direction. One of my favorites is actually tracking the number of brand searches to your website through Google. So to do that you might say, “I know that my brand is increasing, getting more interested in the marketplace the more people who search for me on Google.” So for example, you could run a Google Adwords campaign just bidding on the keywords [inaudible] or mispellings around that, look at the number of impressions that your ad’s being served up to. It won’t cost you much for the click. In fact, it’s probably a good thing to defend your brand and control that path. But what you’re going to collect is insights into the number of people that are searching for your brand even if they don’t click on your ad. Those searches will indicate brand power. So that’s a really cheap and easy way for you to look at whether your brand is taking off. Now, can you correlate that exactly to new business? No. But it tends to be a great way that you can measure potential future success. Other areas you might want to look at is obviously indicators like visitors to your website, brand mentions on external websites. They’re all soft KPIs, but what we’re trying to do is map these softer KPIs and say, “Well, this is leading through to a greater business discovery.” And you’ll get more faith in the model the more confident you are that where you’re placing your brand is in front of the right eyeballs, the right– all the people that you’re actually trying to target. So it doesn’t give you a perfect answer, and I don’t think there is a perfect answer for this. There’s a lot of [inaudible], and there’s a lot of belief in what you need to do. But the more you can establish robust soft KPIs, indicators, whether it be leads or phone calls, all these element and so you’re [inaudible] to website visitors. These are all the soft KPIs I’d like you to build in– for you to build into a model to build some confidence that yes, okay, you might only be doing three or four enterprise-level sales on a monthly basis. I don’t really know what that is. So you need higher volumes and higher numbers to sort of get some statistics behind. So these are all the kind of KPIs you should be looking at. The other key area I’d add is anywhere you’re able to grab data and that data being sort of broken into three broad buckets. You’ve got primary data which will be email addresses and phone numbers. If you’re collecting those, they’re primary data points that mean that you can identify a unique person and also find them again on the web at any different place using custom audiences. The secondary level of data is people who like or follow. So this is your likes on Facebook. This is your followers on Twitter. And the tertiary level of data which is the least robust is the anonymised cookies, the anonymised pixels, and people who’ve clicked on ads in Facebook. But if you start putting these three levels of data down and you start to consider these data points to be crucial value-add variables and KPIs in your business or assets to your business, that’s when you’re going to get a really good idea of, “Okay, I’m definitely growing my audience that I’m speaking to.” And whilst it might not represent a pipeline in the traditional sales sense, it does represent an audience that is willing to listen to you and you’re able to reach in another way. So if you think about those pixels and those three different data points and you value them differently, they can be great ways for you to indicate future revenue and growth of your business. So I hope that helps. Really tough question, I’m not going be able to answer it absolutely perfectly. But hopefully, I’ve given you a few nuggets and ideas there. And rest assure. You’re not alone. Every business that’s out there that has a slow sales process is wrestling with those ideas because they can’t track end to end. But there are proven techniques from old-school offline marketing that work. And the good about it is it’s not as cut and dry as pure online acquisition marketing. There’s a bit of art. There’s a bit of [inaudible] there which yes, makes a bit harder, makes it a little bit more uncomfortable. But if you get it right, there’s a lot more value in your business. And it’s a lot more dependable as a brand position.  So finally, I just want to have a quick look at the idea of using animation in your online videos be it ads or explain the videos. I was inspired to sort of look at this today and [inaudible] question but by searching through LinkedIn during the week. And I saw an article on LinkedIn Pulse written by Sheldon of Big TV– sorry, is the head of content there. He’s got a great post, and I’ll link to that in the show notes where he’s talking about the power of using animation in your videos. And I think he touched on a really interesting point which is this idea that you can get quite distracted when you do a video when you use real people. I don’t think this is exactly his point, but this was my take away from what he wrote. As humans, we’ve sort of evolved around this idea that we make general assumptions, and we sort of say we recognise people. We have that sort of inbuilt human brain that learns from previous experiences. And what that means is how we relate to people is often how they look in all the information around them. So a traditional video, I’ve got background, I’ve got noise, I’ve got lots of movement. I’ve got these wonderful little idiosyncrasies that could be in the person that they’re interviewing in the video. It could be the subject of that video could be an actor. And the thing is my subconscious is amazingly powerful at interpreting the sort of the hidden message behind those people. And that hidden message in what they’re saying particularly if they’re an actor might not be entirely compelling. Now, on the flip side, animation doesn’t suffer from that same problem. Animation is able to deliver visually simple stories that are easy to understand. So all of a sudden now I can’t look at this like turn up in the eye and wonder if the person’s being a little bit sneaky or whether they’re holding back some information or can I tell if there’s something going on there? I’m actually looking at animation which is naturally going to be simple, but I’m able to focus on the audio a lot more. And the audio still portrays emotion. The audio still has the message in there. But the video, in a weird way, keeps my brain engaged visually enough so that I’m really listening to what’s coming through. And there’s a fantastic example that Sheldon puts there of a video that he created for the Queensland Ballet. And the emotion behind it is really clear. The animations are quite simple. I’m not distracted by costumes or the people. I understand what ballet is, I can see the movement, I can see the story and it’s coming through. The background and all the other colours that are flying around the screen are far more engaging. And I think this is something that we’re seeing more and more. If you’re like me, you’re seeing a lot of videos, influencers on LinkedIn holding cameras. And the problem is, there’s a lot of movement, there’s a lot of noise. You tend to judge the person, rightly or wrongly, by what they look like, how they’re acting, how they’re moving around, whether they’re paying attention. And animation doesn’t suffer from that problem.
The other great thing about an animation is it’s so much faster to produce. You don’t have to do as much with lighting, you can do a lot more in editing. And I can still do a shout-out here for one of the clients and one of the companies I work with called Biteable. And this is exactly the space that Biteable operates in. They create amazingly beautiful and simple animations for explainer videos that allow people who sign up to it to tell their story in a really simple way. And that’s often the case; the simplest stories can be portrayed in just a few letters, a few words. And the animation is a way to engage the person’s brain and keep the audience paying attention. The words can be quite simple. Sheldon’s example, they use spoken word over the top of the animation. Biteable more uses text, a bit like Twitter. You think you’re being restricted down to a small amount of text. But I think the amazing thing is the way that what would seem like a limitation actually empowers you to tell a much more powerful story. So I’d really recommend checking out both Biteable and some of the videos – you can get a free account there, it doesn’t cost anything to try that out – and also head over to Bigfish TV and have a look at a couple of the animations they’ve got.
The ballet one is hugely– so that’s [inaudible] The Queensland Ballet is quite an emotional and easy piece. And then there’s a second video they’ve got called Family Law Systems Exposed. That one’s much more emotional. And I think the power in that one is that you’re able to hear the voice. You can hear the person who’s narrating’s voice breaking as they struggle with the pain of the story that they’re telling. The animation isn’t of them. I don’t know what this lady looks like. I can’t see her face, but I can hear her voice, and that makes it easier for me to relate to because I don’t have the ability to judge her physically. I don’t get to look at her and make some assessments about who she is or what she might represent. I’m just listening to her as a person and I’m seeing the animation that brings that story to life. So if you’re struggling with how you’re going to tell your story, if you’re struggling with your website and you’re running copy and there’s lots of information there, I think animation is a fantastic way to explain a message or basically to tell a story. Definitely take a look at it. There’s obviously varying levels of it. You can go hire a great agency to produce top-notch work or you can go use one of the free online tools.
But I think there’s a rising use of animation and if you want to look at the best examples of that it’s just the rise and rise of Pixar movies and other animation studios, and how well those movies are now grossing because people are able to identify. It doesn’t matter what country you’re in, you can relate to two monsters that are blue and green because they’re animated. They’re not real people. Whereas any other movie you might like to shoot with actual human actors, there’s always going to be that slight judgement that occurs. I’m taken to a thought of a movie recently that came out around the Great Wall of China, but with American actors in it. It just grates you the wrong way. Well, grates you anyway. So take a look. Have a think about how you– what story you want to tell. And maybe think about using animation as a way to get around that need to hire talent and have along production crews and big overheads in producing what really should be something that’s fairly cheap to produce.
[music] Thanks for listening to that latest episode, guys. I’m just got two quick favours to ask of your here right at the end. Firstly, if you have any questions, please shoot them through. This podcast only exists because I answer questions that listeners send in. So if you head along to, that will redirect you to the latest episode and you can drop your questions down there. Those questions you submit become the basis for each episode. So if you’ve got a question around SEO, paid search, growth hack marketing, PR, brand positioning, market segmentation, anything you might like to know and it’s going to help your business, drop the question down there and I’ll try to answer on the next episode. If you don’t have any questions, that’s absolutely fine. The other thing you can do is head on over to Subscribing to this podcast not only delivers each episode straight through to your smartphone, but it really helps me reach a bigger audience all the time. That subscription really helps me out. So if you can do that, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks a lot for your time, again, and see you next week.